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This is a red herring in my eyes. I really can't see what everybody else think they are seeing, a crow having fun sliding down the slopes on his newly invented

This is a red herring in my eyes. I really can't see what everybody else think they are seeing, a crow having fun sliding down the slopes on his newly invented snowboard. I see a crow trying to open the great-smelling lid of a jar to get to the food "inside", having chosen a really lousy location for this activity. The crow is stupid for trying to open an object that is not a container, and stupid for choosing the ridge of a roof to do this. And above all, it is visibly frustrated with the results of it's own stupidity. It's not having fun, it's hungry as hell and can't get to the food it thinks is inside the lid. UPDATE just to clarify what I'm saying: I'm not questioning the intelligence of crows, I'm questioning the interpretation of this video. There could be crows playing chess and appearing on radio talk shows and I would still argue that this bird is just trying to find food and being stupid in it's choices doing so. He's mostly standing on the lid picking at it, which is exactly how crows eat. Why on earth would you pick at your snowboard if you were busy having fun in the slopes?

scotty79 15y ago
I've seen crows heaving fun earlier. In the mountains I saw two crows hovering on the strong air current (without flapping their wings) just half a meter above the sloped ground cawing loudly. All this for significant period of time for no apparent reason other than just to enjoy themselves. This one also looks like he's having fun. I don't understand why using lid as a sled is so unbelievable. Some dogs use skateboards to have fun.
- martinkallstrom 15y ago
  It's not unbelievable at all. I think animals can have loads of fun and crows are awesome. But in this video I see a hungry poor bird, desperate to find some food. It has nothing to do with if crows are intelligent or can have fun, I'm talking about the video.
slavak 15y ago
Actually, regardless of what you think of this specific video, crows are pretty damn smart: [1] http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0808_020808_crow.html http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0808_020808_... (Crows use and figure out how to create tools.) [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/science/26crow.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/science/26crow.html (Crows recognize human faces and communicate about it.)
- martinkallstrom 15y ago
  Thanks for the pointers! As a long-term HN addict, I am fully aware of the crow's aptness in some regards.
neilk 15y ago
The play of corvids (crows, magpies, ravens, etc.) is pretty well documented. They seem to like sliding or rolling down snowy slopes. It could be some way of bathing themselves but surely just plunging into snow would be more effective. It's also common to see them using twigs as tools. Put it all together and it seems plausible to me that one of them could have learned to snowboard. I agree it's important to remember that the bird has a mind separated from ours by millions of years. But, at times like this, I like to recall this story about Chinese philosopher Chuang Tzu. http://home.earthlink.net/~bchaney/ty/joy-of-fishes.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~bchaney/ty/joy-of-fishes.htm
- jaekwon 15y ago
  Hah, I read that as a kid and understood it to mean that we shouldn't anthropomorphize. I guess didn't understand the author at the time.
jaekwon 15y ago
It's plausible, but I disagree for these reasons. 1. The crow stands on the lid as soon as it puts it down 2. Sometimes the crow waits on the lid 3. The crow slides down with the lid instead of flying off of it 4. The crow flies back to the same spot 5. We already know that crows are rather intelligent
- martinkallstrom 15y ago
  All five points would also be true in the case he's trying to find food and being frustrated with not getting any. And missing in your list is "6. The crow is spending most of it's energy picking at the lid." which is not explained by the theory that it is just spending a day in the slopes.
  - jaekwon 15y ago
    Nah, don't you think crows know a little better than to expect food to come out of a flat lid (with no container)? If you saw a monkey doing the same, would you think it was looking for food? Why get on the lid and wait, if you're looking for food? Why fly back to the top, if you're looking for food? Why slide down with the lid? etc. I would expect the crow to take other actions, if it were frustrated & looking for food. The crow picks at the lid, possibly to cause a stir to slide further down, but I don't presume that far. There are many reasons for picking at things, if you're a crow.
- scotty79 15y ago
  Also when lid got stuck in the snow (at the end of the second good slide) crow could peck it for as long as he liked. If he wanted to get something out of the lid he would continue to do it not fly again to the top. I think the pecking only purpose is to make the lid slide down. Apart from that pecking is the same for him as the touch is for us. We tend to move our hands and fingers a lot to improve our sense of touch when we operate an object.
  - martinkallstrom 15y ago
    He flies to the top because he needs something hard under the lid, not the soft snow. After two thirds of the video the crow figures out that by having one leg on the "ground" the jar won't slide down when he picks and pulls at it, then spending the last third of the video in this position.
lobo_tuerto 15y ago
"Why on earth would you pick at your snowboard if you were busy having fun in the slopes?" Well, I could say that's because it wants the snowboard to keep sliding, although he doesn't understand why it has stopped on _white terrain_ (it shold slide you know?). So he goes back to where it knows it can slide down again. I think it's the same when it went from one roof side back to the other.
scotth 15y ago
You think it's trying to get food? Out of a lid? Come on...

scotty79 15y ago

I've seen crows heaving fun earlier. In the mountains I saw two crows hovering on the strong air current (without flapping their wings) just half a meter above the sloped ground cawing loudly. All this for significant period of time for no apparent reason other than just to enjoy themselves. This one also looks like he's having fun. I don't understand why using lid as a sled is so unbelievable. Some dogs use skateboards to have fun.

martinkallstrom 15y ago
It's not unbelievable at all. I think animals can have loads of fun and crows are awesome. But in this video I see a hungry poor bird, desperate to find some food. It has nothing to do with if crows are intelligent or can have fun, I'm talking about the video.

slavak 15y ago

Actually, regardless of what you think of this specific video, crows are pretty damn smart: [1] http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0808_020808_crow.html http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0808_020808_... (Crows use and figure out how to create tools.) [2] http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/science/26crow.html http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/science/26crow.html (Crows recognize human faces and communicate about it.)

martinkallstrom 15y ago
Thanks for the pointers! As a long-term HN addict, I am fully aware of the crow's aptness in some regards.

neilk 15y ago

The play of corvids (crows, magpies, ravens, etc.) is pretty well documented. They seem to like sliding or rolling down snowy slopes. It could be some way of bathing themselves but surely just plunging into snow would be more effective. It's also common to see them using twigs as tools. Put it all together and it seems plausible to me that one of them could have learned to snowboard. I agree it's important to remember that the bird has a mind separated from ours by millions of years. But, at times like this, I like to recall this story about Chinese philosopher Chuang Tzu. http://home.earthlink.net/~bchaney/ty/joy-of-fishes.htm http://home.earthlink.net/~bchaney/ty/joy-of-fishes.htm

jaekwon 15y ago
Hah, I read that as a kid and understood it to mean that we shouldn't anthropomorphize. I guess didn't understand the author at the time.

jaekwon 15y ago

It's plausible, but I disagree for these reasons. 1. The crow stands on the lid as soon as it puts it down 2. Sometimes the crow waits on the lid 3. The crow slides down with the lid instead of flying off of it 4. The crow flies back to the same spot 5. We already know that crows are rather intelligent

martinkallstrom 15y ago
All five points would also be true in the case he's trying to find food and being frustrated with not getting any. And missing in your list is "6. The crow is spending most of it's energy picking at the lid." which is not explained by the theory that it is just spending a day in the slopes.
- jaekwon 15y ago
  Nah, don't you think crows know a little better than to expect food to come out of a flat lid (with no container)? If you saw a monkey doing the same, would you think it was looking for food? Why get on the lid and wait, if you're looking for food? Why fly back to the top, if you're looking for food? Why slide down with the lid? etc. I would expect the crow to take other actions, if it were frustrated & looking for food. The crow picks at the lid, possibly to cause a stir to slide further down, but I don't presume that far. There are many reasons for picking at things, if you're a crow.
scotty79 15y ago
Also when lid got stuck in the snow (at the end of the second good slide) crow could peck it for as long as he liked. If he wanted to get something out of the lid he would continue to do it not fly again to the top. I think the pecking only purpose is to make the lid slide down. Apart from that pecking is the same for him as the touch is for us. We tend to move our hands and fingers a lot to improve our sense of touch when we operate an object.
- martinkallstrom 15y ago
  He flies to the top because he needs something hard under the lid, not the soft snow. After two thirds of the video the crow figures out that by having one leg on the "ground" the jar won't slide down when he picks and pulls at it, then spending the last third of the video in this position.

lobo_tuerto 15y ago

"Why on earth would you pick at your snowboard if you were busy having fun in the slopes?" Well, I could say that's because it wants the snowboard to keep sliding, although he doesn't understand why it has stopped on _white terrain_ (it shold slide you know?). So he goes back to where it knows it can slide down again. I think it's the same when it went from one roof side back to the other.

scotth 15y ago

You think it's trying to get food? Out of a lid? Come on...