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I think there's a valid discussion to be had about whether we as an industry should expect massive hiring binges to be temporary and necessarily followed years

I think there's a valid discussion to be had about whether we as an industry should expect massive hiring binges to be temporary and necessarily followed years later by layoffs, but these weren't billed as temporary jobs, so I think some shame is warranted. People probably relocated for these jobs, expecting them to be stable. I don't really want to become complacent to working in an industry where major players just lay off thousands of people periodically.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> I think there's a valid discussion to be had about whether we as an industry should expect massive hiring binges to be temporary and necessarily followed years later by layoffs Devil's advocate but at the end of the day, if you're an engineer and Zoom wants to offer you a low-six figure job ($100k-$300k/yr total comp I'm sure is within the normal range for most people), as an employee are you "grateful" and just shut up and take it and don't think twice from the perspective of, who cares if I get laid off in 18 months? Like the company doesn't owe it to you to keep you employed, so the question becomes, do they owe it to you to at least give you a heads up that your full time job isn't really that permanent? No company really gives any salaried employee any guarantee like that. Who are we as employees to say "hey, I think I deserved more communication in your intentions with me/my job"?
- heleninboodler 4y ago
  They definitely don't literally owe us anything, but I think it becomes a question of company reputation. It's definitely going to make me think twice about jumping on any all-time-high hiring surges in the future at certain companies. As for "who are we as employees to say...", I think the answer is that to a large degree, we're the limited resource that gets to say what kind of hiring/firing practices we're willing to put up with. That's a bit diminished at this precise moment, but it's not gone. If you can command a $300k salary, you're in demand enough to be able to filter out companies that will treat you as seasonal work.
ghaff 4y ago
Lots of companies in lots of industries can be very cyclical. Try working for an aerospace company--or one of their many subcontractors--if they lose a big contract.
bengale 4y ago
I think an argument can be made that all jobs are temporary jobs. If you're increasing headcount during a period of high growth then there is often hope that the growth continues enough to support those numbers when things taper off but it's not as easy as people seem to be saying. It looks like they grew somewhere around 300% since the start of COVID, a rif of 15% doesn't seem too far off estimates to me.
- heleninboodler 4y ago
  Agree with all of this. It's a lesson to all of us that when looking at a prospective job, we should be cognizant of whether that company has had massive increases in number of employees lately, and whether that company is one of the ones that has a tendency to do massive hiring followed by massive layoffs.
gnaritas99 4y ago
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MuffinFlavored 4y ago

> I think there's a valid discussion to be had about whether we as an industry should expect massive hiring binges to be temporary and necessarily followed years later by layoffs Devil's advocate but at the end of the day, if you're an engineer and Zoom wants to offer you a low-six figure job ($100k-$300k/yr total comp I'm sure is within the normal range for most people), as an employee are you "grateful" and just shut up and take it and don't think twice from the perspective of, who cares if I get laid off in 18 months? Like the company doesn't owe it to you to keep you employed, so the question becomes, do they owe it to you to at least give you a heads up that your full time job isn't really that permanent? No company really gives any salaried employee any guarantee like that. Who are we as employees to say "hey, I think I deserved more communication in your intentions with me/my job"?

heleninboodler 4y ago
They definitely don't literally owe us anything, but I think it becomes a question of company reputation. It's definitely going to make me think twice about jumping on any all-time-high hiring surges in the future at certain companies. As for "who are we as employees to say...", I think the answer is that to a large degree, we're the limited resource that gets to say what kind of hiring/firing practices we're willing to put up with. That's a bit diminished at this precise moment, but it's not gone. If you can command a $300k salary, you're in demand enough to be able to filter out companies that will treat you as seasonal work.

ghaff 4y ago

Lots of companies in lots of industries can be very cyclical. Try working for an aerospace company--or one of their many subcontractors--if they lose a big contract.

bengale 4y ago

I think an argument can be made that all jobs are temporary jobs. If you're increasing headcount during a period of high growth then there is often hope that the growth continues enough to support those numbers when things taper off but it's not as easy as people seem to be saying. It looks like they grew somewhere around 300% since the start of COVID, a rif of 15% doesn't seem too far off estimates to me.

heleninboodler 4y ago
Agree with all of this. It's a lesson to all of us that when looking at a prospective job, we should be cognizant of whether that company has had massive increases in number of employees lately, and whether that company is one of the ones that has a tendency to do massive hiring followed by massive layoffs.

gnaritas99 4y ago

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