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About time. The way to free developers from the 30% app tax on iOS is through the web. Apple has been doing their best to drag their heels in order to keep grip

About time. The way to free developers from the 30% app tax on iOS is through the web. Apple has been doing their best to drag their heels in order to keep grip over revenue from in-app purchases inside their walled garden, but the writing is truly on the wall at this point. As an aside, for anyone interested in WebAssembly and the future of gaming in the browser - my team and I at Wonder Interactive are bringing the full power of native gaming to the web. We're building out a platform and suite of tools that allows developers to publish, host, share, and monetize their games directly to their players online, without any middlemen. The current focus is on the Unreal Engine (4.24, 4.27) and UE5 support which is coming later this year. Other engines will follow such as Unity, Godot, Open 3D Engine, and custom engines we can provide porting for on our paid plans. We're building out a WebGPU backend for UE5, to really enable high end desktop and console quality games in HTML5. The goal is to free developers from storefronts that charge a 30% tax on distribution. Further reading, with demos attached: https://theimmersiveweb.com/blog https://theimmersiveweb.com/blog

galleywest200 4y ago
For what it is worth...the rumor mill seems to believe that Apple will allow side-loading as of iOS 17. https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/14/apple-will-reportedly-allow-sideloading-apps-with-ios-17/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/14/apple-will-reportedly-allo... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-13/will-apple-allow-users-to-install-third-party-app-stores-sideload-in-europe https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-13/will-appl...
- dsissitka 4y ago
  I wonder how difficult they're going to make things. > To help protect against unsafe apps, Apple is discussing the idea of mandating certain security requirements even if software is distributed outside its store. Such apps also may need to be verified by Apple — a process that could carry a fee. Within the App Store, Apple takes a 15% to 30% cut of revenue.
  - throwawayapples 4y ago
    So, basically they're still the gatekeeper and tollbooth operator, but it looks like the opposite. Nicely done, Apple.
    - iib 4y ago
      If this brings us non-Webkit browsers on iOS, I think it's still a victory.
      - criddell 4y ago
        Safari on iOS is basically the only thing stopping the future of the web from being controlled by Google via Blink.
        jaynetics 4y ago
        Even if there is a choice, iPhone users might tend to stick with Safari anyway. Desktop Safari's market share is about 10%, roughly the same as macOS' market share, which seems to suggest limited appetite for browser customization.
        capableweb 4y ago
        > Desktop Safari's market share is about 10%, roughly the same as macOS' market share Where you're getting these numbers from? Doesn't sound right to me, but maybe I just have a biased sample. I'd guesstimate that 50% if not more of my friends with macOS run Chrome, small percentage (2 or 3) runs Firefox and the rest Safari.
        mr_toad 4y ago
        Statcounter and other sites show ~10% for desktop Safari, and 15-18% in richer countries. Most people I know with Macs have at least two browsers installed, but then most people with Macs I know are fairly tech savvy.
scarface74 4y ago
> About time. The way to free developers from the 30% app tax on iOS is through the web. You mean like all of the developers who aren’t creating native apps on Android and are creating PWAs? There are just three issues with this narrative: 1. It came out in the Epic trial that 80% of all app revenue is coming from games. 2. Most of the other revenue derived from the App Store is coming from services where no one pays through the App Store 3. Large companies have already abandoned in app purchases like Spotify and Netflix
- arcturus17 4y ago
  > You mean like all of the developers who aren’t creating native apps on Android and are creating PWAs? I'm not sure I understand your wording right... Are you saying that devs creating PWAs are "free?" Because it's well-known that PWAs has been stunted by Apple and Google. The technology is well behind its potential. PWAs could do significantly more if they had better access to system APIs.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    So now there is a great conspiracy by both Apple and Google? Maybe web technologies just aren’t as good as native? In the history of computing there has never been a cross platform general purpose GUI framework that didn’t suck. Not to mention most Android devices in the wild are low end and don’t handle complex web pages well
    - arcturus17 4y ago
      > So now there is a great conspiracy by both Apple and Google? What conspiracy? They have huge economic disincentives to further PWAs - there is no need for any conspiracy. In the first presentation of the iPhone, Steve Jobs laid out a vision where the smartphone would run web apps, using fundamental web technologies (HTML, CSS, JS). He quickly backtracked when he realised Apple could impose a 30% tax on transactions in the platform. > Maybe web technologies just aren’t as good as native? No one said they are, but that's no excuse to drag your feet in implementing simple things like push notifications. > In the history of computing there has never been a cross platform general purpose GUI framework that didn’t suck. What GUI framework? I barely even know what we are talking about anymore. You don't need one with PWA - again, you're using fundamental web technologies, and enabling them to make system calls. > Not to mention most Android devices in the wild are low end and don’t handle complex web pages well So that's another excuse to not further PWAs, huh?
jbverschoor 4y ago
If your revenue is under $1m, it's only 15%. If you'd do your own payment processing (stripe) and tax consolidation (?), it would only equates to about 11%. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/small-business-program/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/small-business-program...
deleted 4y ago
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galleywest200 4y ago

For what it is worth...the rumor mill seems to believe that Apple will allow side-loading as of iOS 17. https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/14/apple-will-reportedly-allow-sideloading-apps-with-ios-17/ https://techcrunch.com/2022/12/14/apple-will-reportedly-allo... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-13/will-apple-allow-users-to-install-third-party-app-stores-sideload-in-europe https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-12-13/will-appl...

dsissitka 4y ago
I wonder how difficult they're going to make things. > To help protect against unsafe apps, Apple is discussing the idea of mandating certain security requirements even if software is distributed outside its store. Such apps also may need to be verified by Apple — a process that could carry a fee. Within the App Store, Apple takes a 15% to 30% cut of revenue.
- throwawayapples 4y ago
  So, basically they're still the gatekeeper and tollbooth operator, but it looks like the opposite. Nicely done, Apple.
  - iib 4y ago
    If this brings us non-Webkit browsers on iOS, I think it's still a victory.
    - criddell 4y ago
      Safari on iOS is basically the only thing stopping the future of the web from being controlled by Google via Blink.
      - jaynetics 4y ago
        Even if there is a choice, iPhone users might tend to stick with Safari anyway. Desktop Safari's market share is about 10%, roughly the same as macOS' market share, which seems to suggest limited appetite for browser customization.
        capableweb 4y ago
        > Desktop Safari's market share is about 10%, roughly the same as macOS' market share Where you're getting these numbers from? Doesn't sound right to me, but maybe I just have a biased sample. I'd guesstimate that 50% if not more of my friends with macOS run Chrome, small percentage (2 or 3) runs Firefox and the rest Safari.
        mr_toad 4y ago
        Statcounter and other sites show ~10% for desktop Safari, and 15-18% in richer countries. Most people I know with Macs have at least two browsers installed, but then most people with Macs I know are fairly tech savvy.

scarface74 4y ago

> About time. The way to free developers from the 30% app tax on iOS is through the web. You mean like all of the developers who aren’t creating native apps on Android and are creating PWAs? There are just three issues with this narrative: 1. It came out in the Epic trial that 80% of all app revenue is coming from games. 2. Most of the other revenue derived from the App Store is coming from services where no one pays through the App Store 3. Large companies have already abandoned in app purchases like Spotify and Netflix

arcturus17 4y ago
> You mean like all of the developers who aren’t creating native apps on Android and are creating PWAs? I'm not sure I understand your wording right... Are you saying that devs creating PWAs are "free?" Because it's well-known that PWAs has been stunted by Apple and Google. The technology is well behind its potential. PWAs could do significantly more if they had better access to system APIs.
- scarface74 4y ago
  So now there is a great conspiracy by both Apple and Google? Maybe web technologies just aren’t as good as native? In the history of computing there has never been a cross platform general purpose GUI framework that didn’t suck. Not to mention most Android devices in the wild are low end and don’t handle complex web pages well
  - arcturus17 4y ago
    > So now there is a great conspiracy by both Apple and Google? What conspiracy? They have huge economic disincentives to further PWAs - there is no need for any conspiracy. In the first presentation of the iPhone, Steve Jobs laid out a vision where the smartphone would run web apps, using fundamental web technologies (HTML, CSS, JS). He quickly backtracked when he realised Apple could impose a 30% tax on transactions in the platform. > Maybe web technologies just aren’t as good as native? No one said they are, but that's no excuse to drag your feet in implementing simple things like push notifications. > In the history of computing there has never been a cross platform general purpose GUI framework that didn’t suck. What GUI framework? I barely even know what we are talking about anymore. You don't need one with PWA - again, you're using fundamental web technologies, and enabling them to make system calls. > Not to mention most Android devices in the wild are low end and don’t handle complex web pages well So that's another excuse to not further PWAs, huh?

jbverschoor 4y ago

If your revenue is under $1m, it's only 15%. If you'd do your own payment processing (stripe) and tax consolidation (?), it would only equates to about 11%. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/small-business-program/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/small-business-program...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]