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> Did they really think COVID lifestyle was going to stay forever and their business would be gangbusters forever? It's easy to feel superior with hindsight, b

> Did they really think COVID lifestyle was going to stay forever and their business would be gangbusters forever? It's easy to feel superior with hindsight, but possibly, yeah. Maybe it's not the right bet but it's not totally crazy to think that companies shifting to working from home might continue to work from home after trying it out. I can certainly think of some "they should have known" examples but this isn't one of them. Nobody knew one way or the other. Heck my company is now majority remote so I'd say we still don't know.

ghaff 4y ago
Zoom is actually a company where it wasn't unreasonable to think there was really a "new normal" and Zoom was well-positioned to capitalize on that shift. As it turned out, things reset to be more like pre-pandemic than many thought--especially outside the tech bubble--and Google and Microsoft were probably better able to capitalize on an overall increase in videoconferencing as part of their office suites.
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  > Zoom is actually a company where it wasn't unreasonable to think there was really a "new normal" and Zoom was well-positioned to capitalize on that shift. I agree from the perspective of, how much travel related to business is non-essential (could be solved over Zoom/equivalent but instead isn't)? Face to face with clients, seminars Maybe I'm missing data on the intangibles of in-person meeting vs digital meeting
  - ghaff 4y ago
    I don't know about data but there are definitely intangibles relating to building relationships over food/drink/activities that aren't really replaced by a more transactional video call intended to communicate information. That's not really a surprise to most people but there was still a pretty broad assumption that the practicalities of reducing travel in favor of video would win out to a significant degree. And that mostly hasn't happened. It's probably also the case that a lot of people in companies, including execs, complain about business travel but actually really like the change of scenery so they find excuses to do it.
    - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
      > I don't know about data but there are definitely intangibles relating to building relationships over food/drink/activities that aren't really replaced by a more transactional video call intended to communicate information. 100% agree. It's just fun to think about just how much, for example, "waste" happens with this. Think of the impact to the climate from all of the planes traveling, etc.
JohnFen 4y ago
At the very least, it was (or should have been) very clear to everybody that the future was uncertain. Permanently hiring people is a thing you do when you're certain. Why did they not hire on time-limited contracts until they could be more sure of how things would shake out? If it turned out that the growth was permanent, you offer permanent jobs to the contractors. If it turned out it was temporary, you haven't made a promise to anyone that you could keep. Either way, nobody gets burned.
- ghaff 4y ago
  There are very few certainties in business. In the US, it's generally not even legal to just hire everyone as a contractor--and many people wouldn't even take a 12-month contract job, perhaps with no benefits.

ghaff 4y ago

Zoom is actually a company where it wasn't unreasonable to think there was really a "new normal" and Zoom was well-positioned to capitalize on that shift. As it turned out, things reset to be more like pre-pandemic than many thought--especially outside the tech bubble--and Google and Microsoft were probably better able to capitalize on an overall increase in videoconferencing as part of their office suites.

MuffinFlavored 4y ago
> Zoom is actually a company where it wasn't unreasonable to think there was really a "new normal" and Zoom was well-positioned to capitalize on that shift. I agree from the perspective of, how much travel related to business is non-essential (could be solved over Zoom/equivalent but instead isn't)? Face to face with clients, seminars Maybe I'm missing data on the intangibles of in-person meeting vs digital meeting
- ghaff 4y ago
  I don't know about data but there are definitely intangibles relating to building relationships over food/drink/activities that aren't really replaced by a more transactional video call intended to communicate information. That's not really a surprise to most people but there was still a pretty broad assumption that the practicalities of reducing travel in favor of video would win out to a significant degree. And that mostly hasn't happened. It's probably also the case that a lot of people in companies, including execs, complain about business travel but actually really like the change of scenery so they find excuses to do it.
  - MuffinFlavored 4y ago
    > I don't know about data but there are definitely intangibles relating to building relationships over food/drink/activities that aren't really replaced by a more transactional video call intended to communicate information. 100% agree. It's just fun to think about just how much, for example, "waste" happens with this. Think of the impact to the climate from all of the planes traveling, etc.

JohnFen 4y ago

At the very least, it was (or should have been) very clear to everybody that the future was uncertain. Permanently hiring people is a thing you do when you're certain. Why did they not hire on time-limited contracts until they could be more sure of how things would shake out? If it turned out that the growth was permanent, you offer permanent jobs to the contractors. If it turned out it was temporary, you haven't made a promise to anyone that you could keep. Either way, nobody gets burned.

ghaff 4y ago
There are very few certainties in business. In the US, it's generally not even legal to just hire everyone as a contractor--and many people wouldn't even take a 12-month contract job, perhaps with no benefits.