I think the software engineering class has done some of that damage to itself over the years. We haven't been able to articulate a clear and actionable case for

I think the software engineering class has done some of that damage to itself over the years. We haven't been able to articulate a clear and actionable case for quality, different teams are wildly different in output and outcomes solving for the same problems... it's hard for the business side of the house to take you seriously if you can't back up any of your claims with data.