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you are walking a dangerous line with that question. Yes, genetic advantages are a thing which is why the NBA is dominated by black people but social factors a

you are walking a dangerous line with that question. Yes, genetic advantages are a thing which is why the NBA is dominated by black people but social factors are also a thing which is why the NHL is dominated by Canadians. Diversity programs aim to address the second factor i.e. giving a temporary boost to people who didn't have access to social and economic privilege.

anonymouskimmer 4y ago
> but social factors are also a thing Why are black people disproportionately in pro basketball? "It must be genetics!". It couldn't possibly be the fact that basketball courts are easier to build in the inner city than baseball fields. It couldn't be the fact that many poor black kids see the salaries that sports stars make, see the accessibility of a basketball court, and think "that's my ticket out.". (A neat documentary about this is "Hoop Dreams") For some reason people find it easiest to default to looking at personal characteristics, which in the alt-right online spaces is genetics (in the regular right it's culture). If I had to guess a reason I'd guess that we're evolutionarily used to living in small tribes, sharing the same environment with everyone we meet, so we look to personal factors to explain preferences and abilities. But we no longer live in those homogeneous environments.
- eldaisfish 4y ago
  In the NBA, it IS genetics. You cannot increase your height through your own efforts, the limit IS genetic. Basketball is one of the few sports where genetic advantages are a major factor. The reason many black americans are so tall is some part a cruel history but an equal part genetics - you would be foolish to deny this. The location of basketball courts is incidental and i'm not certain what your point is.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    There are about 130 thousand people 6' 6" or taller in the US: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585718168419c246cf6f204e/t/5ab7e2de70a6adbbb6bcf676/1522000606378/STATISTICS%2B-Dimensions%2B-%2B3-19-18%2B%281%29.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585718168419c246cf6f2... Which is coincidentally the average height of NBA players (meaning almost half of them are below this height). There are a maximum of about 600 NBA players at any given time, so a little more than 300 at 6' 6" or above. Having good height genetics means you have a 0.25% chance of being an NBA player in any given year. Not factoring in foreign players. Maybe a 2% chance in your lifetime. Being a black person doesn't give you any more advantage than being a white person when it comes to height. In fact, in the USA, white American males average an inch taller than black American males: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-height-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-hei... (Yes, I'm aware of standard deviations, and unfortunately don't have this statistic for the two groups.) > The location of basketball courts is incidental and i'm not certain what your point is. The importance of social factors in opportunity (and motivation) to build talent in certain endeavors.
    - eldaisfish 4y ago
      I was wrong. The US CDC has data for height by percentile and race. Black americans are not taller than white americans - you are absolutely correct. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_211.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_211.pdf See figure 8. However - and this is a major issue - the outliers aren't captured in averages. I read a book called Taboo by John Entine that went into this exact issue. The issue is that the outliers are what determine champions at the elite level and people with west african heritage have slightly more genetic advantages - notably in sports like basketball. there is also the issue of rising incomes and the breaking down of societal barriers. As more black americans have access to sports like basketball, more of their slight genetic advantages can express themselves. All this gets masked by averages. Entine's book makes a point in passing - africans will slowly start to dominate sports like football (soccer) that were traditionally dominated by white people. The french men's and women's football teams are showing this, as are many other european football teams. Football is more about skill and places less of a premium on height but there is one role where height is important - the goalkeeper. In the french squad, all their goalies except Lloris are either black or mixed heritage.
      - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
        I just think it's shitty to point to race instead of pointing to familial, or social, hereditary and non-hereditary factors. Do certain traits tend to be more prevalent within certain broad genetic backgrounds? Sure. But for any given individual, or even family, this tells you nothing. And unfortunately, when people start to use these broad genetic backgrounds for prediction, you end up with cultural filtering whether you wanted it or not. The measuring stick becomes the goal in some way. Let people be people. Let them find their own path through trial and error, unless they actually come looking for advice. Let them know if they're genuinely not a competitor after they have tried, but give them the genuine chance (a rare few will overcome even this). Within the last couple of hundred years we've finally developed societies in which people don't have to follow in their parents footsteps, but can find their own vocations. I don't want to lose this because of some eugenics inclination and racial stereotypes. :D Sumo wrestler football goalies FTW. :D

anonymouskimmer 4y ago

> but social factors are also a thing Why are black people disproportionately in pro basketball? "It must be genetics!". It couldn't possibly be the fact that basketball courts are easier to build in the inner city than baseball fields. It couldn't be the fact that many poor black kids see the salaries that sports stars make, see the accessibility of a basketball court, and think "that's my ticket out.". (A neat documentary about this is "Hoop Dreams") For some reason people find it easiest to default to looking at personal characteristics, which in the alt-right online spaces is genetics (in the regular right it's culture). If I had to guess a reason I'd guess that we're evolutionarily used to living in small tribes, sharing the same environment with everyone we meet, so we look to personal factors to explain preferences and abilities. But we no longer live in those homogeneous environments.

eldaisfish 4y ago
In the NBA, it IS genetics. You cannot increase your height through your own efforts, the limit IS genetic. Basketball is one of the few sports where genetic advantages are a major factor. The reason many black americans are so tall is some part a cruel history but an equal part genetics - you would be foolish to deny this. The location of basketball courts is incidental and i'm not certain what your point is.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  There are about 130 thousand people 6' 6" or taller in the US: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585718168419c246cf6f204e/t/5ab7e2de70a6adbbb6bcf676/1522000606378/STATISTICS%2B-Dimensions%2B-%2B3-19-18%2B%281%29.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585718168419c246cf6f2... Which is coincidentally the average height of NBA players (meaning almost half of them are below this height). There are a maximum of about 600 NBA players at any given time, so a little more than 300 at 6' 6" or above. Having good height genetics means you have a 0.25% chance of being an NBA player in any given year. Not factoring in foreign players. Maybe a 2% chance in your lifetime. Being a black person doesn't give you any more advantage than being a white person when it comes to height. In fact, in the USA, white American males average an inch taller than black American males: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-height-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-hei... (Yes, I'm aware of standard deviations, and unfortunately don't have this statistic for the two groups.) > The location of basketball courts is incidental and i'm not certain what your point is. The importance of social factors in opportunity (and motivation) to build talent in certain endeavors.
  - eldaisfish 4y ago
    I was wrong. The US CDC has data for height by percentile and race. Black americans are not taller than white americans - you are absolutely correct. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_211.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_211.pdf See figure 8. However - and this is a major issue - the outliers aren't captured in averages. I read a book called Taboo by John Entine that went into this exact issue. The issue is that the outliers are what determine champions at the elite level and people with west african heritage have slightly more genetic advantages - notably in sports like basketball. there is also the issue of rising incomes and the breaking down of societal barriers. As more black americans have access to sports like basketball, more of their slight genetic advantages can express themselves. All this gets masked by averages. Entine's book makes a point in passing - africans will slowly start to dominate sports like football (soccer) that were traditionally dominated by white people. The french men's and women's football teams are showing this, as are many other european football teams. Football is more about skill and places less of a premium on height but there is one role where height is important - the goalkeeper. In the french squad, all their goalies except Lloris are either black or mixed heritage.
    - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
      I just think it's shitty to point to race instead of pointing to familial, or social, hereditary and non-hereditary factors. Do certain traits tend to be more prevalent within certain broad genetic backgrounds? Sure. But for any given individual, or even family, this tells you nothing. And unfortunately, when people start to use these broad genetic backgrounds for prediction, you end up with cultural filtering whether you wanted it or not. The measuring stick becomes the goal in some way. Let people be people. Let them find their own path through trial and error, unless they actually come looking for advice. Let them know if they're genuinely not a competitor after they have tried, but give them the genuine chance (a rare few will overcome even this). Within the last couple of hundred years we've finally developed societies in which people don't have to follow in their parents footsteps, but can find their own vocations. I don't want to lose this because of some eugenics inclination and racial stereotypes. :D Sumo wrestler football goalies FTW. :D