3 ms·

> If you know that the general population is 20% race A, 10% race B, 30% race C, and yet your admissions are only pulling in 40% race C, 5% race B and 55% race

> If you know that the general population is 20% race A, 10% race B, 30% race C, and yet your admissions are only pulling in 40% race C, 5% race B and 55% race A, you know something is wrong. Doesn't this ignore the fact that there actually might be biological differences between various races of humans? I mean, aren't most top runners black? I don't follow this closely, but it does seem there is bigger percentage of black people compared to general population. Isn't the fair way to focus on equal opportunities, not outcomes? Give everyone the chance, but pick based on objective criteria (ideally in a blind way)?

anonymouskimmer 4y ago
> Doesn't this ignore the fact that there actually might be biological differences between various races of humans? Show me that we have a society in which everyone is enabled to thrive to their full potential and then make this argument. Until then biological essentialism is profoundly stupid.
eldaisfish 4y ago
you are walking a dangerous line with that question. Yes, genetic advantages are a thing which is why the NBA is dominated by black people but social factors are also a thing which is why the NHL is dominated by Canadians. Diversity programs aim to address the second factor i.e. giving a temporary boost to people who didn't have access to social and economic privilege.
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  > but social factors are also a thing Why are black people disproportionately in pro basketball? "It must be genetics!". It couldn't possibly be the fact that basketball courts are easier to build in the inner city than baseball fields. It couldn't be the fact that many poor black kids see the salaries that sports stars make, see the accessibility of a basketball court, and think "that's my ticket out.". (A neat documentary about this is "Hoop Dreams") For some reason people find it easiest to default to looking at personal characteristics, which in the alt-right online spaces is genetics (in the regular right it's culture). If I had to guess a reason I'd guess that we're evolutionarily used to living in small tribes, sharing the same environment with everyone we meet, so we look to personal factors to explain preferences and abilities. But we no longer live in those homogeneous environments.
  - eldaisfish 4y ago
    In the NBA, it IS genetics. You cannot increase your height through your own efforts, the limit IS genetic. Basketball is one of the few sports where genetic advantages are a major factor. The reason many black americans are so tall is some part a cruel history but an equal part genetics - you would be foolish to deny this. The location of basketball courts is incidental and i'm not certain what your point is.
    - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
      There are about 130 thousand people 6' 6" or taller in the US: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585718168419c246cf6f204e/t/5ab7e2de70a6adbbb6bcf676/1522000606378/STATISTICS%2B-Dimensions%2B-%2B3-19-18%2B%281%29.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585718168419c246cf6f2... Which is coincidentally the average height of NBA players (meaning almost half of them are below this height). There are a maximum of about 600 NBA players at any given time, so a little more than 300 at 6' 6" or above. Having good height genetics means you have a 0.25% chance of being an NBA player in any given year. Not factoring in foreign players. Maybe a 2% chance in your lifetime. Being a black person doesn't give you any more advantage than being a white person when it comes to height. In fact, in the USA, white American males average an inch taller than black American males: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-height-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-hei... (Yes, I'm aware of standard deviations, and unfortunately don't have this statistic for the two groups.) > The location of basketball courts is incidental and i'm not certain what your point is. The importance of social factors in opportunity (and motivation) to build talent in certain endeavors.
      - eldaisfish 4y ago
        I was wrong. The US CDC has data for height by percentile and race. Black americans are not taller than white americans - you are absolutely correct. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_211.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_211.pdf See figure 8. However - and this is a major issue - the outliers aren't captured in averages. I read a book called Taboo by John Entine that went into this exact issue. The issue is that the outliers are what determine champions at the elite level and people with west african heritage have slightly more genetic advantages - notably in sports like basketball. there is also the issue of rising incomes and the breaking down of societal barriers. As more black americans have access to sports like basketball, more of their slight genetic advantages can express themselves. All this gets masked by averages. Entine's book makes a point in passing - africans will slowly start to dominate sports like football (soccer) that were traditionally dominated by white people. The french men's and women's football teams are showing this, as are many other european football teams. Football is more about skill and places less of a premium on height but there is one role where height is important - the goalkeeper. In the french squad, all their goalies except Lloris are either black or mixed heritage.
988747 4y ago
You ignore the fact that DEI people aren't after equality, they are after revenge.

anonymouskimmer 4y ago

> Doesn't this ignore the fact that there actually might be biological differences between various races of humans? Show me that we have a society in which everyone is enabled to thrive to their full potential and then make this argument. Until then biological essentialism is profoundly stupid.

eldaisfish 4y ago

you are walking a dangerous line with that question. Yes, genetic advantages are a thing which is why the NBA is dominated by black people but social factors are also a thing which is why the NHL is dominated by Canadians. Diversity programs aim to address the second factor i.e. giving a temporary boost to people who didn't have access to social and economic privilege.

anonymouskimmer 4y ago
> but social factors are also a thing Why are black people disproportionately in pro basketball? "It must be genetics!". It couldn't possibly be the fact that basketball courts are easier to build in the inner city than baseball fields. It couldn't be the fact that many poor black kids see the salaries that sports stars make, see the accessibility of a basketball court, and think "that's my ticket out.". (A neat documentary about this is "Hoop Dreams") For some reason people find it easiest to default to looking at personal characteristics, which in the alt-right online spaces is genetics (in the regular right it's culture). If I had to guess a reason I'd guess that we're evolutionarily used to living in small tribes, sharing the same environment with everyone we meet, so we look to personal factors to explain preferences and abilities. But we no longer live in those homogeneous environments.
- eldaisfish 4y ago
  In the NBA, it IS genetics. You cannot increase your height through your own efforts, the limit IS genetic. Basketball is one of the few sports where genetic advantages are a major factor. The reason many black americans are so tall is some part a cruel history but an equal part genetics - you would be foolish to deny this. The location of basketball courts is incidental and i'm not certain what your point is.
  - anonymouskimmer 4y ago
    There are about 130 thousand people 6' 6" or taller in the US: https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585718168419c246cf6f204e/t/5ab7e2de70a6adbbb6bcf676/1522000606378/STATISTICS%2B-Dimensions%2B-%2B3-19-18%2B%281%29.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585718168419c246cf6f2... Which is coincidentally the average height of NBA players (meaning almost half of them are below this height). There are a maximum of about 600 NBA players at any given time, so a little more than 300 at 6' 6" or above. Having good height genetics means you have a 0.25% chance of being an NBA player in any given year. Not factoring in foreign players. Maybe a 2% chance in your lifetime. Being a black person doesn't give you any more advantage than being a white person when it comes to height. In fact, in the USA, white American males average an inch taller than black American males: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-height-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/average-hei... (Yes, I'm aware of standard deviations, and unfortunately don't have this statistic for the two groups.) > The location of basketball courts is incidental and i'm not certain what your point is. The importance of social factors in opportunity (and motivation) to build talent in certain endeavors.
    - eldaisfish 4y ago
      I was wrong. The US CDC has data for height by percentile and race. Black americans are not taller than white americans - you are absolutely correct. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_211.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_211.pdf See figure 8. However - and this is a major issue - the outliers aren't captured in averages. I read a book called Taboo by John Entine that went into this exact issue. The issue is that the outliers are what determine champions at the elite level and people with west african heritage have slightly more genetic advantages - notably in sports like basketball. there is also the issue of rising incomes and the breaking down of societal barriers. As more black americans have access to sports like basketball, more of their slight genetic advantages can express themselves. All this gets masked by averages. Entine's book makes a point in passing - africans will slowly start to dominate sports like football (soccer) that were traditionally dominated by white people. The french men's and women's football teams are showing this, as are many other european football teams. Football is more about skill and places less of a premium on height but there is one role where height is important - the goalkeeper. In the french squad, all their goalies except Lloris are either black or mixed heritage.

988747 4y ago

You ignore the fact that DEI people aren't after equality, they are after revenge.