3 ms·

The pledge of allegiance is idiotic forced speech, but it’s also meaninglessly anodyne. DEI statements have right and wrong answers, and giving the wrong answe

The pledge of allegiance is idiotic forced speech, but it’s also meaninglessly anodyne. DEI statements have right and wrong answers, and giving the wrong answer will disqualify you from a job, and ultimately, filter anyone who disagrees out of the academy entirely. That’s very dangerous forced speech. Your example, by the way, would score very low as a DEI statement.

whatshisface 4y ago
>Your example, by the way, would score very low as a DEI statement. I would like to see some examples of DEI statements and what scores they received.
Manuel_D 4y ago
As as student you do not need to state the pledge of allegiance. This case went all the way to the Supreme Court, and the court ruled that students do not have to do it as it's compelled speech. Notable this ruling was made even though the US was in the middle of WWII: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of...
sokoloff 4y ago
Free speech that has consequences is not the same as forced speech or a lack of free speech.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  In terms of what the Constitution and the law protect, the source of the consequences does matter. The First Amendment places broad constraints on the government's ability to impose consequences, and several laws place far narrower constraints on private individuals and privately-owned corporations. (I personally think "speech with consequences" isn't really 'free', but it's legally free in the sense people mean when they're talking about the First Amendment, and some kind of constraint against any consequences for speech whatsoever would be a massive imposition upon individual liberty. Turns out "we live in a society" and by the nature of that existence, one can't just say and do whatever and expect no response from others. If that's how it worked, we'd just be "full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing").

whatshisface 4y ago

>Your example, by the way, would score very low as a DEI statement. I would like to see some examples of DEI statements and what scores they received.

Manuel_D 4y ago

As as student you do not need to state the pledge of allegiance. This case went all the way to the Supreme Court, and the court ruled that students do not have to do it as it's compelled speech. Notable this ruling was made even though the US was in the middle of WWII: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of_Education_v._Barnette https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_State_Board_of...

sokoloff 4y ago

Free speech that has consequences is not the same as forced speech or a lack of free speech.

shadowgovt 4y ago
In terms of what the Constitution and the law protect, the source of the consequences does matter. The First Amendment places broad constraints on the government's ability to impose consequences, and several laws place far narrower constraints on private individuals and privately-owned corporations. (I personally think "speech with consequences" isn't really 'free', but it's legally free in the sense people mean when they're talking about the First Amendment, and some kind of constraint against any consequences for speech whatsoever would be a massive imposition upon individual liberty. Turns out "we live in a society" and by the nature of that existence, one can't just say and do whatever and expect no response from others. If that's how it worked, we'd just be "full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing").