5 ms·

I still don't understand how anyone can find such rules attractive. This is as strict as the catholic church. In the private sector it tells me that a company v

I still don't understand how anyone can find such rules attractive. This is as strict as the catholic church. In the private sector it tells me that a company values show much more than their employees, which probably are treated badly and have to work in an extremely strict environment. If you have to say it... People that honestly fall for such statements are too naive to really fill out any leadership position in my opinion, but it really seems that is their expectation after they paid that much tuition?

mistrial9 4y ago
academics are contracting in an already competitive situation.. expect more "soft pressure" not less, and ugly fights bursting into the public view
onepointsixC 4y ago
Academia is such a brutal cutthroat battle for faculty positions, you have zero choice but to participate. An acquaintance was applying for faculty positions and every single position they were applying to required a DEI statement. It's only a matter of time till it starts bubbling out of academia to industry.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  This is one of the things that nudged me out of academia. Once I realized the odds of making a Feynman-class discovery were low, but that was the bar for tenure (and salary scales below tenure were... Uncompetitive), I started crunching the numbers and decided I'd likely be happier in industry applying discoveries than in academia making them. There's plenty of academics to go around. I need my hands dirty.
- FormerBandmate 4y ago
  > It's only a matter of time till it starts bubbling out of academia to industry Hard disagree. This is the type of thing only colleges do, it’s the equivalent of an essay and also displays how different academia is from the professional world. No one cares about publications in industry, and people buy into this stuff much less sincerely than in academia
  - onepointsixC 4y ago
    This absolutely will leak into MBA programs and become "best practice". You don't want to hire a racist now, do you? No? Good, so mandatory DEI pledges for all!
  - HerbMcM 4y ago
    We're nearing a decade of academia spilling over to the real world, rocketing political polarisation at every level. "Industry" doesn't have any particulars that would render it immune.
    - l33t233372 4y ago
      Did you attend college? I’ve been in and around various colleges for years and I’ve yet to see anything worth getting upset about; let alone worth people outside of this space getting upset about.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - djkivi 4y ago
    Not in industry? Once neglected, DEI initiatives now present at all Fortune 100 companies: https://www.hrdive.com/news/2022-fortune-companies-dei/627651/ https://www.hrdive.com/news/2022-fortune-companies-dei/62765...
  - rhino369 4y ago
    A major tech company forces DEI statements on RFPs for outside vendors. They wanted stars by the names of the diverse people on the proposed team. This stuff have been in the private sector for years now.
- colpabar 4y ago
  It's only a matter of time until it's required by law to be employed, which is pretty fucked up when you remember that health insurance is so closely tied to employment, in america at least.
  - MisterBastahrd 4y ago
    That could actually be a net benefit for society considering that the people who are most likely to hold views outside of the DEI norms are also the ones who are most likely to vote against candidates who support real healthcare reform.
- throwawaysleep 4y ago
  Just lie about it when it does. Nobody verifies my impressive resume claims. Just my employment dates and degrees, if even those. So claim you ran a workshop for transgender black women. Nobody is going to dig deep enough in most cases to know if it is true.
  - HNAbusesUsers 4y ago
    [dead]
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  I think the artificial rules will increase, but the authority of academia as a whole will suffer from those that come out on top here. I think the progress already started when education become a very expensive product instead of a privilege. Academia does have to find a new place since the logistics of information and knowledge transferal became very cheap. You can acquire a lot of knowledge in today's world without a formal education. Not comparable to having a mentor, but neither is true for students in university.
bannedbybros 4y ago
[dead]
kelseyfrog 4y ago
Have you ever fought a war on symbolism before? Do you believe in free speech, personal liberty, and hard work? New epistemologies have taken root and from them, derived new values. Stamping out new ideas is a very very difficult task after they've reached enough people. The new guard sees the old rules as constraining as you find the new rules. Most revolutions happen in people's minds decades before social relations change. You have to realize that there is no repeating the thesis to the antithesis. If you want to get a step ahead of the antithesis, synthesis is one's only option.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  Do people share these values? They are implemented by authority. And some new values are old mistakes that are repeated ad nauseum. Kissing the scepter doesn't mean you love the scepter. Rejection is a strong possibility. Most ideas do die (dei?).
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    People share these values. The most dangerous unforced error is to fool oneself that true-believers don't exist. Deciding the because one must be forced to believe universalizes into other's being forced to believe is an empathy gap. If you wish to understand how how these ideas take root, don't fall into the "enemy is strong and weak" trap. Deciding that oneself believes because principles but others believe because they are forced to or are told to is a good way to fight the wrong fight. You cannot simply wield and old value against a new symbolic universe. You either have to derive it in the new universe or create an even newer symbolic universe which probably can't happen yet because the problems with the new symbolic universe have to be realized within itself, not within the old universe. Take free speech as an example. The DEI universe was created as a response to the symbolic universe free speech was forged in. In order to value free speech again, a post-DEI symbolic universe has to be developed as a response to the internal contradictions of the DEI universe - not the contradictions external to it. Trying to maintain a steady state symbolic universe is itself a contradiction - it's simply not possible. Evolve or die.
    - 4y ago
PM_me_your_math 4y ago
Fairness is not a tenant of the new cultural revolution, nor are the revolutionaries responsive to human nature, individual rights, or even capable of rational and critical thought. The end always justifies the means, with little care given to the truth or reality of whatever means is co-opted and tortured to advance their end. You must adhere to the core beliefs, which will change depending on the red fool's soup de jour. Your beliefs are not important, as their beliefs are gospel without question. It is an old and very insidious religion, revitalized, that has no place in a free and civilized society. We've been down this road before. We know where it leads. Yet we go head-long into the abyss to the chants - the same Marxist slogans and ideology that heralded the starvation and torture of tens of millions of people, whose only 'crimes' were opposition to compelled speech and the desire for individual liberty. I'd like to think it will get better, that western civilization would reject cultural revolutionaries that produce nothing but misery and death under the banner of "equity" ...which means ownership, not exclusive equality... but I am not hopeful. The red guard is back, but this time, they are even more dangerous given the cornucopia of deceit, false promises, reach, and old but effective tactics that poison the minds of the young, so that they march lock-step with cheers & smiles into oblivion, dragging everyone and everything with them.
- shadowgovt 4y ago
  TBF, fairness also wasn't a tenant of the old cultural revolution either. That's why these things keep happening. A free and civilized society has allowed the oppression, dispossession, and outright murder-without-consequence of far, far too many of its citizens to traipse along unquestioned.
  - HNAbusesUsers 4y ago
    [dead]
  - krona 4y ago
    Fairness used to be about treating individuals equally. For example, blind hiring practices. The new 'fairness' is incompatible with blind hiring or individual merit, because its ultimate aim is to make what you are more important than what you have done. You might say 'that's a good thing' but to claim these aren't polar opposite concepts of fairness or justice is disingenuous.
hprotagonist 4y ago
> This is as strict as the catholic church. Much stricter: they have a well-established mechanism for reconciliation and forgiveness! In fact, several!
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

mistrial9 4y ago

academics are contracting in an already competitive situation.. expect more "soft pressure" not less, and ugly fights bursting into the public view

onepointsixC 4y ago

Academia is such a brutal cutthroat battle for faculty positions, you have zero choice but to participate. An acquaintance was applying for faculty positions and every single position they were applying to required a DEI statement. It's only a matter of time till it starts bubbling out of academia to industry.

shadowgovt 4y ago
This is one of the things that nudged me out of academia. Once I realized the odds of making a Feynman-class discovery were low, but that was the bar for tenure (and salary scales below tenure were... Uncompetitive), I started crunching the numbers and decided I'd likely be happier in industry applying discoveries than in academia making them. There's plenty of academics to go around. I need my hands dirty.
FormerBandmate 4y ago
> It's only a matter of time till it starts bubbling out of academia to industry Hard disagree. This is the type of thing only colleges do, it’s the equivalent of an essay and also displays how different academia is from the professional world. No one cares about publications in industry, and people buy into this stuff much less sincerely than in academia
- onepointsixC 4y ago
  This absolutely will leak into MBA programs and become "best practice". You don't want to hire a racist now, do you? No? Good, so mandatory DEI pledges for all!
- HerbMcM 4y ago
  We're nearing a decade of academia spilling over to the real world, rocketing political polarisation at every level. "Industry" doesn't have any particulars that would render it immune.
  - l33t233372 4y ago
    Did you attend college? I’ve been in and around various colleges for years and I’ve yet to see anything worth getting upset about; let alone worth people outside of this space getting upset about.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- djkivi 4y ago
  Not in industry? Once neglected, DEI initiatives now present at all Fortune 100 companies: https://www.hrdive.com/news/2022-fortune-companies-dei/627651/ https://www.hrdive.com/news/2022-fortune-companies-dei/62765...
- rhino369 4y ago
  A major tech company forces DEI statements on RFPs for outside vendors. They wanted stars by the names of the diverse people on the proposed team. This stuff have been in the private sector for years now.
colpabar 4y ago
It's only a matter of time until it's required by law to be employed, which is pretty fucked up when you remember that health insurance is so closely tied to employment, in america at least.
- MisterBastahrd 4y ago
  That could actually be a net benefit for society considering that the people who are most likely to hold views outside of the DEI norms are also the ones who are most likely to vote against candidates who support real healthcare reform.
throwawaysleep 4y ago
Just lie about it when it does. Nobody verifies my impressive resume claims. Just my employment dates and degrees, if even those. So claim you ran a workshop for transgender black women. Nobody is going to dig deep enough in most cases to know if it is true.
- HNAbusesUsers 4y ago
  [dead]
raxxorraxor 4y ago
I think the artificial rules will increase, but the authority of academia as a whole will suffer from those that come out on top here. I think the progress already started when education become a very expensive product instead of a privilege. Academia does have to find a new place since the logistics of information and knowledge transferal became very cheap. You can acquire a lot of knowledge in today's world without a formal education. Not comparable to having a mentor, but neither is true for students in university.

bannedbybros 4y ago

[dead]

kelseyfrog 4y ago

Have you ever fought a war on symbolism before? Do you believe in free speech, personal liberty, and hard work? New epistemologies have taken root and from them, derived new values. Stamping out new ideas is a very very difficult task after they've reached enough people. The new guard sees the old rules as constraining as you find the new rules. Most revolutions happen in people's minds decades before social relations change. You have to realize that there is no repeating the thesis to the antithesis. If you want to get a step ahead of the antithesis, synthesis is one's only option.

raxxorraxor 4y ago
Do people share these values? They are implemented by authority. And some new values are old mistakes that are repeated ad nauseum. Kissing the scepter doesn't mean you love the scepter. Rejection is a strong possibility. Most ideas do die (dei?).
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  People share these values. The most dangerous unforced error is to fool oneself that true-believers don't exist. Deciding the because one must be forced to believe universalizes into other's being forced to believe is an empathy gap. If you wish to understand how how these ideas take root, don't fall into the "enemy is strong and weak" trap. Deciding that oneself believes because principles but others believe because they are forced to or are told to is a good way to fight the wrong fight. You cannot simply wield and old value against a new symbolic universe. You either have to derive it in the new universe or create an even newer symbolic universe which probably can't happen yet because the problems with the new symbolic universe have to be realized within itself, not within the old universe. Take free speech as an example. The DEI universe was created as a response to the symbolic universe free speech was forged in. In order to value free speech again, a post-DEI symbolic universe has to be developed as a response to the internal contradictions of the DEI universe - not the contradictions external to it. Trying to maintain a steady state symbolic universe is itself a contradiction - it's simply not possible. Evolve or die.
  - 4y ago

PM_me_your_math 4y ago

Fairness is not a tenant of the new cultural revolution, nor are the revolutionaries responsive to human nature, individual rights, or even capable of rational and critical thought. The end always justifies the means, with little care given to the truth or reality of whatever means is co-opted and tortured to advance their end. You must adhere to the core beliefs, which will change depending on the red fool's soup de jour. Your beliefs are not important, as their beliefs are gospel without question. It is an old and very insidious religion, revitalized, that has no place in a free and civilized society. We've been down this road before. We know where it leads. Yet we go head-long into the abyss to the chants - the same Marxist slogans and ideology that heralded the starvation and torture of tens of millions of people, whose only 'crimes' were opposition to compelled speech and the desire for individual liberty. I'd like to think it will get better, that western civilization would reject cultural revolutionaries that produce nothing but misery and death under the banner of "equity" ...which means ownership, not exclusive equality... but I am not hopeful. The red guard is back, but this time, they are even more dangerous given the cornucopia of deceit, false promises, reach, and old but effective tactics that poison the minds of the young, so that they march lock-step with cheers & smiles into oblivion, dragging everyone and everything with them.

shadowgovt 4y ago
TBF, fairness also wasn't a tenant of the old cultural revolution either. That's why these things keep happening. A free and civilized society has allowed the oppression, dispossession, and outright murder-without-consequence of far, far too many of its citizens to traipse along unquestioned.
- HNAbusesUsers 4y ago
  [dead]
- krona 4y ago
  Fairness used to be about treating individuals equally. For example, blind hiring practices. The new 'fairness' is incompatible with blind hiring or individual merit, because its ultimate aim is to make what you are more important than what you have done. You might say 'that's a good thing' but to claim these aren't polar opposite concepts of fairness or justice is disingenuous.

hprotagonist 4y ago

> This is as strict as the catholic church. Much stricter: they have a well-established mechanism for reconciliation and forgiveness! In fact, several!

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]