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> Diversity of thought - that is extremely important The beauty of gender and ethnic diversity is that it help with diversity of thought as well. From motivati

> Diversity of thought - that is extremely important The beauty of gender and ethnic diversity is that it help with diversity of thought as well. From motivating tech for more diverse sets of applications, to making it more inclusive in terms of localization, removing subtle biases in implementations (e.g. music tools that do not reflect purely western music traditions - to mention something concrete) Its a tough nut to crack, as we don't need token initiatives but ideas that are authentic in the OSS context and can undo the entrenched society-wide lack of inclusion for certain groups.

0x445442 4y ago
Society doesn’t need equal representation in every field of endeavor. It only needs to remove institutional barriers to entry. I’d argue those barriers really don’t exist now and that lamenting over group preferences is a fool’s errand. I don’t see those lamenting over the lack of “diversity” in STEM having any issue with the lack of diversity in the NBA.
- rtpg 4y ago
  So if it’s 0% it’s fine? What’s the line? What’s the number where it’s not weird? There are plenty of practical barriers in IT tech events, evidenced in having to constantly remind men at events that this professional event isn’t a mixer so chill with the PUA behavior, to stop assuming every woman they meet here at the event is in sales or advertising, to not doing events at strip clubs… (I’m assuming you’re male) how many times have you had to disengage from a professional group conversation because one person is just constantly hitting on you? Ask your women coworkers how often this happens. Everyone is different and should be judged as such, but I’ve been in community events where this sort of behavior isn’t rampant and it’s a million times better. And yeah, turns out that having a more representative organizational community does wonders for that. I don’t know the FOSDEM environment, and I imagine it’s much better than the norm on this front.
  - radicalbyte 4y ago
    It wasn't 0%. For me - it was actually 100% female for the presentations I attended. Spent most of the weekend walking around and talking to people :)
  - 0x445442 4y ago
    > What’s the line? What’s the number where it’s not weird? There is no line that's weird. What's weird is expecting there to be a line like %50.7% female or %14.2 black. > (I’m assuming you’re male) how many times have you had to disengage from a professional group conversation because one person is just constantly hitting on you? Ask your women coworkers how often this happens. If this is happening at work it sounds like an unprofessional work environment in which case you have recourse. If the problem persists after making the unprofessional behavior known to leadership then there's probably systemic issues with that organization that go beyond just sexual harassment. As an aside, I've had to disengage from professional group conversations a number of times because of my political and religious beliefs, which also should not be a problem at work. > Everyone is different and should be judged as such, but I’ve been in community events where this sort of behavior isn’t rampant and it’s a million times better. And yeah, turns out that having a more representative organizational community does wonders for that. This sounds like you choosing how to spend your free time and if you think the "quality" of an event is effected by how many different skin colors and the percentage of gender participate, great. It also sounds like nothing is stopping you from doing that so I don't see an issue here.
    - rtpg 4y ago
      What I want, is for people to feel more or less welcome at any event. There are events where this is the case, a lot where they are not. > As an aside, I've had to disengage from professional group conversations a number of times because of my political and religious beliefs, which also should not be a problem at work. "Me sharing my political beliefs in a work environment has a negative reaction" is different from "this guy keeps on hitting on me at this event". I don't want to be too dismissive, and yeah it is better if an environment is open, but for some stuff there is no "cover", so to speak. (To put a finer point on it, "This guy keeps on hitting on me at this event" happens _even if someone completely keeps their mouth shut and does absolutely nothing to encourage it_) You are right that in a company event or something, there's loads of recourse. The difficulty is more in semi-professional events, run by conference organizers and where there are many "external" people. There is often no clear chain of responsibility, a lack of real consequences for bad actors, and ultimately it means that there are people who feel unsafe, _no matter how little they say_.
- college_physics 4y ago
  Information technology isn't "every field of endeavor". Its a technology and device that is already being used to manipulate and control, redistribute wealth and is rapidly expanding to reshape every aspect of life. It infamously, intents to "eat the world" The lack of a sense of responsibility illustrative in your comment is actually quite representative of how this industry has behaved thus far - precisely because of its unrepresentative ideology / cultural context.
  - 0x445442 4y ago
    I'd argue health care is more important and it's disproportionately represented by females. This must bother you deeply.
    - college_physics 4y ago
      If your female partner requires medical treatment and it turns out that it is less (or not at all available) because health care was gender biased for so long I hope that will bother you deeply too.
      - 0x445442 4y ago
        That would bother me but that's not what's happening in tech. If anything, tech is purposefully discriminating against white males at this point to promote some artificial ideal of race and gender equity.
        college_physics 4y ago
        we cant fix a wrong with another wrong. or by expanding the scope beyond solvability. the challenge is quite specific: can a FOSS conference be more "diverse" when the pool of people that have an interest in its subject is not particularly diverse (and taking it as a given that presenters are treated on merit) the answer is not obviously "no". My original comment was precisely prompted by that parent expressing how cool the experience for their kid. A nine-year old is not exactly the typical attendee of a tech conference. The topics that you choose to cover. The activities that you choose to support. The atmosphere you choose to create. Those things make a difference on who chooses to engage. People's choices make a difference - nothing else does.
snowpid 4y ago
I doubt it. All these diversity people might fight for more diversity - except people have the wrong opinion.

0x445442 4y ago

Society doesn’t need equal representation in every field of endeavor. It only needs to remove institutional barriers to entry. I’d argue those barriers really don’t exist now and that lamenting over group preferences is a fool’s errand. I don’t see those lamenting over the lack of “diversity” in STEM having any issue with the lack of diversity in the NBA.

rtpg 4y ago
So if it’s 0% it’s fine? What’s the line? What’s the number where it’s not weird? There are plenty of practical barriers in IT tech events, evidenced in having to constantly remind men at events that this professional event isn’t a mixer so chill with the PUA behavior, to stop assuming every woman they meet here at the event is in sales or advertising, to not doing events at strip clubs… (I’m assuming you’re male) how many times have you had to disengage from a professional group conversation because one person is just constantly hitting on you? Ask your women coworkers how often this happens. Everyone is different and should be judged as such, but I’ve been in community events where this sort of behavior isn’t rampant and it’s a million times better. And yeah, turns out that having a more representative organizational community does wonders for that. I don’t know the FOSDEM environment, and I imagine it’s much better than the norm on this front.
- radicalbyte 4y ago
  It wasn't 0%. For me - it was actually 100% female for the presentations I attended. Spent most of the weekend walking around and talking to people :)
- 0x445442 4y ago
  > What’s the line? What’s the number where it’s not weird? There is no line that's weird. What's weird is expecting there to be a line like %50.7% female or %14.2 black. > (I’m assuming you’re male) how many times have you had to disengage from a professional group conversation because one person is just constantly hitting on you? Ask your women coworkers how often this happens. If this is happening at work it sounds like an unprofessional work environment in which case you have recourse. If the problem persists after making the unprofessional behavior known to leadership then there's probably systemic issues with that organization that go beyond just sexual harassment. As an aside, I've had to disengage from professional group conversations a number of times because of my political and religious beliefs, which also should not be a problem at work. > Everyone is different and should be judged as such, but I’ve been in community events where this sort of behavior isn’t rampant and it’s a million times better. And yeah, turns out that having a more representative organizational community does wonders for that. This sounds like you choosing how to spend your free time and if you think the "quality" of an event is effected by how many different skin colors and the percentage of gender participate, great. It also sounds like nothing is stopping you from doing that so I don't see an issue here.
  - rtpg 4y ago
    What I want, is for people to feel more or less welcome at any event. There are events where this is the case, a lot where they are not. > As an aside, I've had to disengage from professional group conversations a number of times because of my political and religious beliefs, which also should not be a problem at work. "Me sharing my political beliefs in a work environment has a negative reaction" is different from "this guy keeps on hitting on me at this event". I don't want to be too dismissive, and yeah it is better if an environment is open, but for some stuff there is no "cover", so to speak. (To put a finer point on it, "This guy keeps on hitting on me at this event" happens _even if someone completely keeps their mouth shut and does absolutely nothing to encourage it_) You are right that in a company event or something, there's loads of recourse. The difficulty is more in semi-professional events, run by conference organizers and where there are many "external" people. There is often no clear chain of responsibility, a lack of real consequences for bad actors, and ultimately it means that there are people who feel unsafe, _no matter how little they say_.
college_physics 4y ago
Information technology isn't "every field of endeavor". Its a technology and device that is already being used to manipulate and control, redistribute wealth and is rapidly expanding to reshape every aspect of life. It infamously, intents to "eat the world" The lack of a sense of responsibility illustrative in your comment is actually quite representative of how this industry has behaved thus far - precisely because of its unrepresentative ideology / cultural context.
- 0x445442 4y ago
  I'd argue health care is more important and it's disproportionately represented by females. This must bother you deeply.
  - college_physics 4y ago
    If your female partner requires medical treatment and it turns out that it is less (or not at all available) because health care was gender biased for so long I hope that will bother you deeply too.
    - 0x445442 4y ago
      That would bother me but that's not what's happening in tech. If anything, tech is purposefully discriminating against white males at this point to promote some artificial ideal of race and gender equity.
      - college_physics 4y ago
        we cant fix a wrong with another wrong. or by expanding the scope beyond solvability. the challenge is quite specific: can a FOSS conference be more "diverse" when the pool of people that have an interest in its subject is not particularly diverse (and taking it as a given that presenters are treated on merit) the answer is not obviously "no". My original comment was precisely prompted by that parent expressing how cool the experience for their kid. A nine-year old is not exactly the typical attendee of a tech conference. The topics that you choose to cover. The activities that you choose to support. The atmosphere you choose to create. Those things make a difference on who chooses to engage. People's choices make a difference - nothing else does.

snowpid 4y ago

I doubt it. All these diversity people might fight for more diversity - except people have the wrong opinion.