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>Those who are fortunate enough not to rely on benefits may not realize it, but if you look at the amount of bureaucracy surrounding benefits, it becomes clear

>Those who are fortunate enough not to rely on benefits may not realize it, but if you look at the amount of bureaucracy surrounding benefits, it becomes clear that this problem permeates the entire system. If you rely on benefits, you are treated with suspicion by default (by design). Exactly, and that is why I'll always bring up the only example of a benefit system that doesn't suffer all those beaurocratic nightmares. Polish child support (so called 500+) is a benefit for everyone that has a child(or children). It is 500pln (a it over 100eur) per child per month. It has been genius to give it to everyone. Minimal beaurocraticy was required as the state already has a record of children and parents. Fraud is minimal and it eradicated child poverty in few months. There are still a lot of people hurt very deeply that "rich people get it too". Most people don't care, and it's goals are accomplished regardless. The cost is comparable with similar income-weighted benefits in other countries. Edit:To clarify. Isn't current Polish gov right wing? Such things only happen in PL :-) That a right wing gov. brings a new benefit and the left is up in arms (because it has no income applicability). Now 8 years later the left has kind of accepted it was a good idea, but in the beginning they were very much against it.

sofixa 4y ago
> Edit:To clarify. Isn't current Polish gov right wing? Such things only happen in PL :-) That a right wing gov. brings a new benefit and the left is up in arms (because it has no income applicability). Now 8 years later the left has kind of accepted it was a good idea, but in the beginning they were very much against it. This is why left/right wing don't always make sense in today's political climate. A radar/pizza chart (with the different categories - economic, social, ecological, etc.) is more appropriate than a slider but that doesn't provide for easy labels. A party can be right-wing, but pro-green stuff (renewables, decarbonisation, etc.) which isn't usually associated with right-wing politics. And of course populism makes it so that any party can implement policies which are widely accepted (such as giving money for children) regardless of (nominal) party colours.
xorcist 4y ago
> There are still a lot of people hurt very deeply that "rich people get it too" This is the difference between a social insurance system and benefits. The former is much easier to reason about, and therefore can have simpler rules. Nobody complains that "rich people gets pensions too" because of course they do. They pay taxes like everyone else. This is well proven, and perhaps most well known, in the Nordic countries. When people treat certain measures as rights and not handouts, couples can plan their lives accordingly and manage both qualified educations and children.
em500 4y ago
> Exactly, and that is why I'll always bring up the only example of a benefit system that doesn't suffer all those beaurocratic nightmares. Polish child support (so called 500+) is a benefit for everyone that has a child(or children). It is 500pln (a it over 100eur) per child per month. It has been genius to give it to everyone. Minimal beaurocraticy was required as the state already has a record of children and parents. Fraud is minimal and it eradicated child poverty in few months. This is also true for the 'kinderbijslag' in the Netherlands, the parents post about this is simply untrue. The vast majority of parents get it automatically in their bank account without any administration beyond establishing that you're a parent with valid resident permit and children and your bank account. There is of course extra work if you don't reside in the country or your child was born elsewhere / recently immigrated, but I can't imagine that that's much different in Poland.

sofixa 4y ago

> Edit:To clarify. Isn't current Polish gov right wing? Such things only happen in PL :-) That a right wing gov. brings a new benefit and the left is up in arms (because it has no income applicability). Now 8 years later the left has kind of accepted it was a good idea, but in the beginning they were very much against it. This is why left/right wing don't always make sense in today's political climate. A radar/pizza chart (with the different categories - economic, social, ecological, etc.) is more appropriate than a slider but that doesn't provide for easy labels. A party can be right-wing, but pro-green stuff (renewables, decarbonisation, etc.) which isn't usually associated with right-wing politics. And of course populism makes it so that any party can implement policies which are widely accepted (such as giving money for children) regardless of (nominal) party colours.

xorcist 4y ago

> There are still a lot of people hurt very deeply that "rich people get it too" This is the difference between a social insurance system and benefits. The former is much easier to reason about, and therefore can have simpler rules. Nobody complains that "rich people gets pensions too" because of course they do. They pay taxes like everyone else. This is well proven, and perhaps most well known, in the Nordic countries. When people treat certain measures as rights and not handouts, couples can plan their lives accordingly and manage both qualified educations and children.

em500 4y ago

> Exactly, and that is why I'll always bring up the only example of a benefit system that doesn't suffer all those beaurocratic nightmares. Polish child support (so called 500+) is a benefit for everyone that has a child(or children). It is 500pln (a it over 100eur) per child per month. It has been genius to give it to everyone. Minimal beaurocraticy was required as the state already has a record of children and parents. Fraud is minimal and it eradicated child poverty in few months. This is also true for the 'kinderbijslag' in the Netherlands, the parents post about this is simply untrue. The vast majority of parents get it automatically in their bank account without any administration beyond establishing that you're a parent with valid resident permit and children and your bank account. There is of course extra work if you don't reside in the country or your child was born elsewhere / recently immigrated, but I can't imagine that that's much different in Poland.