3 ms·

> [Running] NixOS as a desktop and hoping this reduces your complexity is the technological equivalent to making planes out of straw and hoping for cargo drops.

by pxc 4y ago

> [Running] NixOS as a desktop and hoping this reduces your complexity is the technological equivalent to making planes out of straw and hoping for cargo drops. Idk that running NixOS is about 'reducing complexity' per se, but I will say this: Using NixOS feels a lot less chaotic than using most desktop operating systems. It's a very predictable experience, There are ways that it spares me worries and mental effort, in the way I use it every day. Managing software in other ways has become frustrating for me by comparison. For some people, it's a really good fit on the desktop. People don't stick with it for years on their desktops and laptops just to punish themselves. How that hashes out in terms of 'complexity' is beside the point, imo.

superkuh 4y ago
If you only use things people already created environments for it's pretty great. But try to compile and run a random C program you found on the internet on NixOS and that complexity immediately becomes apparent. Because there is no "system library" set for NixOS you have to create the environment needed for every single thing you do. If it is a very popular thing than someone else will have done it. If it is not, as is the case in most situations, you end up having to create the environment yourself via config. A huge extra layer of complexity and work before you even begin to attempt compiling.
- pxc 4y ago
  By the time I started using NixOS, I'd already decided that the only way for me to install software on a distro was via the package manager. So when I want to run something novel, I generally package it, regardless of distro. (For quick and dirty testing of binaries, of course, an escape hatch or a hack is fine.) I love using openSUSE's public instance of the Open Build Service to easily build and distribute my own packages when I'm using non-NixOS in some situation, and would not hesitate to use or create a hosted one in an enterprise context. So for me, NixOS doesn't add too much complexity because my minimal complexity commitment is covers much of what NixOS 'adds' anyway. But this story: > If you only use things people already created environments for it's pretty great. doesn't end at that layer, and in fact it essentially recurs deeper down! When it comes to packaging with Nix or crafting environments, what's popular is usually easy, and what's easy is really easy. But when you go off the beaten path... you're going on a journey. Maybe a short one, but possibly a long and painful one. For me, Nixpkgs and NixOS have grown so much since I first started running NixOS on desktop (like 8 years ago, now!) that such work is rare enough for me that I hardly think about it. But you're quite right that the additional complexity is there, and it can be discouraging and draining when setting up software environments in that way is new to you, or when you just don't wanna do it.

by pxc 4y ago

superkuh 4y ago

If you only use things people already created environments for it's pretty great. But try to compile and run a random C program you found on the internet on NixOS and that complexity immediately becomes apparent. Because there is no "system library" set for NixOS you have to create the environment needed for every single thing you do. If it is a very popular thing than someone else will have done it. If it is not, as is the case in most situations, you end up having to create the environment yourself via config. A huge extra layer of complexity and work before you even begin to attempt compiling.

pxc 4y ago
By the time I started using NixOS, I'd already decided that the only way for me to install software on a distro was via the package manager. So when I want to run something novel, I generally package it, regardless of distro. (For quick and dirty testing of binaries, of course, an escape hatch or a hack is fine.) I love using openSUSE's public instance of the Open Build Service to easily build and distribute my own packages when I'm using non-NixOS in some situation, and would not hesitate to use or create a hosted one in an enterprise context. So for me, NixOS doesn't add too much complexity because my minimal complexity commitment is covers much of what NixOS 'adds' anyway. But this story: > If you only use things people already created environments for it's pretty great. doesn't end at that layer, and in fact it essentially recurs deeper down! When it comes to packaging with Nix or crafting environments, what's popular is usually easy, and what's easy is really easy. But when you go off the beaten path... you're going on a journey. Maybe a short one, but possibly a long and painful one. For me, Nixpkgs and NixOS have grown so much since I first started running NixOS on desktop (like 8 years ago, now!) that such work is rare enough for me that I hardly think about it. But you're quite right that the additional complexity is there, and it can be discouraging and draining when setting up software environments in that way is new to you, or when you just don't wanna do it.