4 ms·

I would take the reverse, actually. Font rendering on Windows (after ClearType) is superior to macOs - I realize this could be a matter of preference though.

lockhouse 4y ago
I think this is true for 1080p resolution displays and worse, however for 4K and better, I prefer macOS font rendering.
- AmalgatedAmoeba 4y ago
  I have a 32” 4k monitor and on macOS fonts are blurry. Readable, but notably worse than on linux with X and the basic hiDPI settings from ArchWiki (with fractional scaling in both cases).
  - syspec 4y ago
    You need a better monitor.
    - AmalgatedAmoeba 4y ago
      Would that I could. Not many 4+k 32” screens around (even 5k 27” is a tough ask)
      - CharlesW 4y ago
        > (even 5k 27” is a tough ask) I can highly recommend the LG UltraFine 5K in case you're looking. I've been using it for years, and it's been a dream. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1499337-REG/lg_27md5klb_b_27_ultrafine_5k_16_9.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1499337-REG/lg_27md5k...
  - mastazi 4y ago
    yes and that's because the relevant value IMHO is not resolution but DPI. A large 32" screen is bound to have relatively low DPI even at 4k, compared to smaller screens
mouse_ 4y ago
macOS doesn't even support subpixel rendering since Mojave from what I understand. And even prior to that change, simple XP ClearType and beyond has always looked far superior to macOS/freetype rendering in my opinion.
- nighthawk454 4y ago
  That may not be a bug. I think there's a notion that once the display has high enough DPI, there's no point trying to do subpixel rendering anymore. It also relied on a known physical subpixel layout which I'm not sure holds in modern screens.
  - TheCoreh 4y ago
    Subpixel antialiasing also looks weird with scaled video modes (where the screen is rendered at a higher resolution then resampled at the native resolution), can't really work correctly with translucent/transparent backgrounds, and can look weird when mirroring or dragging windows between displays with different subpixel order.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  Subpixel rendering does almost nothing for Retina screens, they're already so much sharper. And it introduces tons of complexities and tradeoffs, namely that it breaks all scaling, adding ugly color fringes. I remember it was such a pain on Windows to remember to disable subpixel rendering every time I needed to take a screenshot to paste into documentation.
  - NBJack 4y ago
    And this is precisely what frustrates me about Macs and their focus on Retina displays: historically horrific support for the world of external monitors. It does not even shock me when Apple rolls out a laptop that only officially supports a single secondary display. This is only further complicated with the only 'Canonical' external displays offered are either woefully out of production or charge as much as the laptop itself just for the stand. And say what you will about ClearType: at least you can turn it off. I recall trying so hard to do the same for my Mac only to find out my instructions, including massive config changes, sadly no longer worked due to a version bump of the OS.
gilgoomesh 4y ago
It's a famously controversial topic. macOS aims to most accurately preserve the shape but isn't always the sharpest. ClearType aims for a balance of sharpness and accuracy. And both were written to avoid a number of long-expired patents that forced non-ideal approaches.
- chem83 4y ago
  Some articles written on this and why it's a matter of opinion: - https://thaomaoh.com/mac-vs-windows/ https://thaomaoh.com/mac-vs-windows/ - https://blog.codinghorror.com/whats-wrong-with-apples-font-rendering/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/whats-wrong-with-apples-font-r... - https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2007/06/12/font-smoothing-anti-aliasing-and-sub-pixel-rendering/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2007/06/12/font-smoothing-ant... - https://web.archive.org/web/20160313114920/http://blog.codinghorror.com/font-rendering-respecting-the-pixel-grid/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160313114920/http://blog.codin... It shouldn't matter if all screens are hi-dpi and it's better to disable font smoothing completely in that case. OSX doesn't seem to support it at all after Mojave.
  - mmis1000 4y ago
    It's still a bit relevant for CJK, but not as much as it used to be. CJK have some really complex charactrt that hidpi@2 still isn't enough to present perfectly. For example `國` has almost 6 horizontal line from top to bottom. If you are in dpi@2 and set font size to 10. You need to present a correct line with same width within 3 pixels. Which isn't that 'enough'. Although the information density of CJK character is high enough that it is readable even it is somehow blurry. It is not a good reading experience. And what about non-hidpi screen? I don't even know why people are about to read small text of such complex character without sub-pixel anti-alias.
    - chem83 4y ago
      That's great context. Thank you. We tend to optimize for western use cases, but this is a good example of where that conventional thinking my fail.
userbinator 4y ago
It is most certainly subjective; I prefer antialiasing (and that includes subpixel) completely off.

lockhouse 4y ago

I think this is true for 1080p resolution displays and worse, however for 4K and better, I prefer macOS font rendering.

AmalgatedAmoeba 4y ago
I have a 32” 4k monitor and on macOS fonts are blurry. Readable, but notably worse than on linux with X and the basic hiDPI settings from ArchWiki (with fractional scaling in both cases).
- syspec 4y ago
  You need a better monitor.
  - AmalgatedAmoeba 4y ago
    Would that I could. Not many 4+k 32” screens around (even 5k 27” is a tough ask)
    - CharlesW 4y ago
      > (even 5k 27” is a tough ask) I can highly recommend the LG UltraFine 5K in case you're looking. I've been using it for years, and it's been a dream. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1499337-REG/lg_27md5klb_b_27_ultrafine_5k_16_9.html https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1499337-REG/lg_27md5k...
- mastazi 4y ago
  yes and that's because the relevant value IMHO is not resolution but DPI. A large 32" screen is bound to have relatively low DPI even at 4k, compared to smaller screens

mouse_ 4y ago

macOS doesn't even support subpixel rendering since Mojave from what I understand. And even prior to that change, simple XP ClearType and beyond has always looked far superior to macOS/freetype rendering in my opinion.

nighthawk454 4y ago
That may not be a bug. I think there's a notion that once the display has high enough DPI, there's no point trying to do subpixel rendering anymore. It also relied on a known physical subpixel layout which I'm not sure holds in modern screens.
- TheCoreh 4y ago
  Subpixel antialiasing also looks weird with scaled video modes (where the screen is rendered at a higher resolution then resampled at the native resolution), can't really work correctly with translucent/transparent backgrounds, and can look weird when mirroring or dragging windows between displays with different subpixel order.
crazygringo 4y ago
Subpixel rendering does almost nothing for Retina screens, they're already so much sharper. And it introduces tons of complexities and tradeoffs, namely that it breaks all scaling, adding ugly color fringes. I remember it was such a pain on Windows to remember to disable subpixel rendering every time I needed to take a screenshot to paste into documentation.
- NBJack 4y ago
  And this is precisely what frustrates me about Macs and their focus on Retina displays: historically horrific support for the world of external monitors. It does not even shock me when Apple rolls out a laptop that only officially supports a single secondary display. This is only further complicated with the only 'Canonical' external displays offered are either woefully out of production or charge as much as the laptop itself just for the stand. And say what you will about ClearType: at least you can turn it off. I recall trying so hard to do the same for my Mac only to find out my instructions, including massive config changes, sadly no longer worked due to a version bump of the OS.

gilgoomesh 4y ago

It's a famously controversial topic. macOS aims to most accurately preserve the shape but isn't always the sharpest. ClearType aims for a balance of sharpness and accuracy. And both were written to avoid a number of long-expired patents that forced non-ideal approaches.

chem83 4y ago
Some articles written on this and why it's a matter of opinion: - https://thaomaoh.com/mac-vs-windows/ https://thaomaoh.com/mac-vs-windows/ - https://blog.codinghorror.com/whats-wrong-with-apples-font-rendering/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/whats-wrong-with-apples-font-r... - https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2007/06/12/font-smoothing-anti-aliasing-and-sub-pixel-rendering/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2007/06/12/font-smoothing-ant... - https://web.archive.org/web/20160313114920/http://blog.codinghorror.com/font-rendering-respecting-the-pixel-grid/ https://web.archive.org/web/20160313114920/http://blog.codin... It shouldn't matter if all screens are hi-dpi and it's better to disable font smoothing completely in that case. OSX doesn't seem to support it at all after Mojave.
- mmis1000 4y ago
  It's still a bit relevant for CJK, but not as much as it used to be. CJK have some really complex charactrt that hidpi@2 still isn't enough to present perfectly. For example `國` has almost 6 horizontal line from top to bottom. If you are in dpi@2 and set font size to 10. You need to present a correct line with same width within 3 pixels. Which isn't that 'enough'. Although the information density of CJK character is high enough that it is readable even it is somehow blurry. It is not a good reading experience. And what about non-hidpi screen? I don't even know why people are about to read small text of such complex character without sub-pixel anti-alias.
  - chem83 4y ago
    That's great context. Thank you. We tend to optimize for western use cases, but this is a good example of where that conventional thinking my fail.

userbinator 4y ago

It is most certainly subjective; I prefer antialiasing (and that includes subpixel) completely off.