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Old string instruments get pretty insane in price. My old teacher plays on a cello that's worth ~$1 million, and interestingly enough, he got a group of 10 inve

Old string instruments get pretty insane in price. My old teacher plays on a cello that's worth ~$1 million, and interestingly enough, he got a group of 10 investors to each put down $100k (not unlike angel investing I suppose). It's win-win: the instrument is pretty much guaranteed to appreciate in value, especially with a serious artist performing on it, and the artist gets to play on a instrument that doesn't hold them back in terms of expressiveness/tone quality.

mynameishere 15y ago
pretty much guaranteed to appreciate in value Well, that's not how an efficient market behaves. But then this isn't an efficient market. It's a market with gigantic...gigantic...inefficiency. What price would I put on a strad? 500 dollars maybe. After all, it sounds about as good as other 500 dollar violins, worse for wear and tear. At some point, the evaluation of real value and the romanticism of history are going to collide. This is more common in art, where the name "Picasso" out-values all the beauty that man ever produced. You can buy many thousands of prints for the price of single original. Why? Romance. 124 thousand pounds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit
- corin_ 15y ago
  You're pretty much completely wrong. 1.) String instruments (possibly others too? I've no idea) generally improve by being skilfully played, a cello that has been played for a long time by Yo Yo Ma will actually be better than it was before he played it. 2.) As with any piece of art, or antique, age is a factor, and as such instruments appreciating in value as time goes on is pretty understandable. 3.) It's exactly how an efficient market behaves - items are valued at what people are willing to pay for them. That's how markets always work.
  - mvgoogler 15y ago
    "1.) String instruments (possibly others too? I've no idea) generally improve by being skilfully played, a cello that has been played for a long time by Yo Yo Ma will actually be better than it was before he played it." Do you have any sources for this? I've never heard this before. It's easy to imagine how unskilled players could make an instrument worse, but it's hard for me to imagine how it would work the other way. Is it really related to the skill-level of the player, or are skilled player just more likely to care for the instrument properly? I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just genuinely curious...
    - corin_ 15y ago
      I don't, but will have a look around in the morning as I'm about to head to bed (UK time). My source is the opinion of numerous music professionals, I first heard it at a young age from my cello teacher (a former concert cellist), and since then from a number of high-level professional cellists and violinists. That said, it's possible I was wrong to think that it is the case for ancient instruments such as strads, it might only be the case for younger instruments. I don't think it's anything to do with caring for instruments, but actually a case of the way it is played. I'll get back to you, hopefully!
      - mvgoogler 15y ago
        Thanks! I'd be interested to read anything you have. I just started playing violin about a month ago, so it piqued my interest.
    - cperciva 15y ago
      There has been a lot of research into how instruments change by being played; nobody completely understands the mechanisms involved, but it is clear that there are changes in the crystallization of the varnish which affect the sound. Any good violinist can tell you that after an instrument hasn't been played for a while, it takes a few months of playing -- the louder the better -- before it will start to "speak" properly.
      - mvgoogler 15y ago
        Do you know of any papers or articles you could point me to? The only thing I could find was this article: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/powerhousetwins.html http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/powerhousetwins.html It sounds like an interesting experiment, but probably needs more time to really provide solid data. At the time the article was written (2005) the two violins were only three years old and the results were inconclusive. It would be interesting to hear if they've done any follow-ups.
    - wglb 15y ago
      My daughter plays the cello, and the shop where she gets it repaired has a number of moderately expensive instruments of all kinds. The shop owner has various artists who come by just to play the instrument, first for their own enjoyment at using a fine instrument, and secondly as a favor to the shop owner as playing of the instrument keeps it in good shape.
  - hristov 15y ago
    Further to your point I believe there is some accounting trick that makes musical instruments good vehicles for tax deferral. It has to do with the IRS rules on depreciation.
- beambot 15y ago
  This is like saying that a $100 bill is worth no more than it's "real value": the value of a quarter sheet of paper. Provenance, rarity, and psychology play a significant part in the value of any object. What's worth $500 to you is (apparently) worth many millions to others. If you ever find yourself on the receiving end of a genuine Stradivari, please let me know -- I will gladly purchase it from you for your perceived value.

mynameishere 15y ago

pretty much guaranteed to appreciate in value Well, that's not how an efficient market behaves. But then this isn't an efficient market. It's a market with gigantic...gigantic...inefficiency. What price would I put on a strad? 500 dollars maybe. After all, it sounds about as good as other 500 dollar violins, worse for wear and tear. At some point, the evaluation of real value and the romanticism of history are going to collide. This is more common in art, where the name "Picasso" out-values all the beauty that man ever produced. You can buy many thousands of prints for the price of single original. Why? Romance. 124 thousand pounds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit

corin_ 15y ago
You're pretty much completely wrong. 1.) String instruments (possibly others too? I've no idea) generally improve by being skilfully played, a cello that has been played for a long time by Yo Yo Ma will actually be better than it was before he played it. 2.) As with any piece of art, or antique, age is a factor, and as such instruments appreciating in value as time goes on is pretty understandable. 3.) It's exactly how an efficient market behaves - items are valued at what people are willing to pay for them. That's how markets always work.
- mvgoogler 15y ago
  "1.) String instruments (possibly others too? I've no idea) generally improve by being skilfully played, a cello that has been played for a long time by Yo Yo Ma will actually be better than it was before he played it." Do you have any sources for this? I've never heard this before. It's easy to imagine how unskilled players could make an instrument worse, but it's hard for me to imagine how it would work the other way. Is it really related to the skill-level of the player, or are skilled player just more likely to care for the instrument properly? I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just genuinely curious...
  - corin_ 15y ago
    I don't, but will have a look around in the morning as I'm about to head to bed (UK time). My source is the opinion of numerous music professionals, I first heard it at a young age from my cello teacher (a former concert cellist), and since then from a number of high-level professional cellists and violinists. That said, it's possible I was wrong to think that it is the case for ancient instruments such as strads, it might only be the case for younger instruments. I don't think it's anything to do with caring for instruments, but actually a case of the way it is played. I'll get back to you, hopefully!
    - mvgoogler 15y ago
      Thanks! I'd be interested to read anything you have. I just started playing violin about a month ago, so it piqued my interest.
  - cperciva 15y ago
    There has been a lot of research into how instruments change by being played; nobody completely understands the mechanisms involved, but it is clear that there are changes in the crystallization of the varnish which affect the sound. Any good violinist can tell you that after an instrument hasn't been played for a while, it takes a few months of playing -- the louder the better -- before it will start to "speak" properly.
    - mvgoogler 15y ago
      Do you know of any papers or articles you could point me to? The only thing I could find was this article: http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/powerhousetwins.html http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/jw/powerhousetwins.html It sounds like an interesting experiment, but probably needs more time to really provide solid data. At the time the article was written (2005) the two violins were only three years old and the results were inconclusive. It would be interesting to hear if they've done any follow-ups.
  - wglb 15y ago
    My daughter plays the cello, and the shop where she gets it repaired has a number of moderately expensive instruments of all kinds. The shop owner has various artists who come by just to play the instrument, first for their own enjoyment at using a fine instrument, and secondly as a favor to the shop owner as playing of the instrument keeps it in good shape.
- hristov 15y ago
  Further to your point I believe there is some accounting trick that makes musical instruments good vehicles for tax deferral. It has to do with the IRS rules on depreciation.
beambot 15y ago
This is like saying that a $100 bill is worth no more than it's "real value": the value of a quarter sheet of paper. Provenance, rarity, and psychology play a significant part in the value of any object. What's worth $500 to you is (apparently) worth many millions to others. If you ever find yourself on the receiving end of a genuine Stradivari, please let me know -- I will gladly purchase it from you for your perceived value.