3 ms·

Not sure "new" is the best way to describe this, given the following, but whatever. Muonium is an exotic atom made up of an antimuon and an electron, which was

Not sure "new" is the best way to describe this, given the following, but whatever. Muonium is an exotic atom made up of an antimuon and an electron, which was discovered in 1960 by Vernon W. Hughes and is given the chemical symbol Mu.[1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muonium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muonium

gus_massa 4y ago
The video is slightly too enthusiastic, but accurate. Except the idea to add it to the periodic table, that is weird. Some of the new elements have a lifetime of a few ms that is very short, but still like 1000 times the half life of a muon... Anyway, it's interesting the idea that a few μs are enough to have "chemistry". (Not glassware chemistry. In a few μs it would disintegrate while you are pouring it from the beaker to the test tube :) .) I think it's enough to have a HMu or Mu_2 or other thing that is similar to molecular hydrogen, and measure some of their properties like the spectrum. I think they still didn't make HMu or Mu_2, but those particle physicist in their tunnels are doing weird things. The mass of a muon is 1/10 of a proton and x100 the mass of a electron. A common approximation in computer simulation of molecules is to assume that atoms are so "heavy" that they are essentially still while the electrons "move around". I guess it's still a good approximation for muons. If you like this, you may enjoy reading about positronium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium The half live is x1000 shorter, but they are easer to produce. I'm wondering if that's enough to get "chemistry", but I guess no. Anyway, the chemical properties would be too strange because the positron is too light.
- Y_Y 4y ago
  In fact the proton-electron mass ratio is often a parameter (!) in plasma simulations. It turns out going from ~1/1837 to something like 1/100 makes things numerically easier without breaking the physics.
- knicholes 4y ago
  I'm not a chemist, but what do you mean it would disintegrate? Like it's literally disintegrating into smaller atoms?
  - pknomad 4y ago
    Not a chemist either (took organic and baby pchem a while ago tho), but I believe he means it would just fall apart since there's no strong force or weak force to keep it together the way it would for a typical atoms. Muon's a fermion so it can't disintegrate into smaller atoms.
  - fsh 4y ago
    The muon decays into a positron and a pair of neutrinos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon#Muon_decay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon#Muon_decay
    - gus_massa 4y ago
      The reaction would be Muon + Electron -> (Positron + Neutrino + Antinutrino) + Electron -> (Positron + Electron) + Neutrino + Antinutrino -> (Photon + Photon) + Neutrino + Antinutrino -> Photon + Photon + Neutrino + Antinutrino The Neutrino and Antineutrino would pass through you, the lab and the whole Earth, almost without interactions, so it's safe to ignore them. The photons will be very energetic and be actually Gamma Rays. Option 1) If it's a tiny amount like the one that can actually be produced, you will get a a few gamma ray. Option 2) If you can see the drop of liquid Mu_2 in the beaker, you will probably see a flash of gamma rays that will kill you and everyone in the lab. I'm too lazy to calculations but I guess an explosion of a few megatones (that is like a modern nuclear bomb). Also, perhaps many of the Electrons and Positrons will not colide immediately, and you would be showered also with some beta radiation. But the Positrons will colide after a short time and release the energy as gamma rays anyway. The exact amount of destruction of a drop of Mu_2 is a good question for https://what-if.xkcd.com/ https://what-if.xkcd.com/
- anonymouskimmer 4y ago
  > "Except the idea to add it to the periodic table, that is weird." It's weird because as indicated in your and other comments, having a different basis for the nucleus of its atoms, muonic elements would be on a completely separate periodic table from protonic elements.
- fsh 4y ago
  Ps_2 molecules have been observed in 2007: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature06094 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature06094
  - gus_massa 4y ago
    More "chemistry" than what imagined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di-positronium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di-positronium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium_hydride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium_hydride

gus_massa 4y ago

The video is slightly too enthusiastic, but accurate. Except the idea to add it to the periodic table, that is weird. Some of the new elements have a lifetime of a few ms that is very short, but still like 1000 times the half life of a muon... Anyway, it's interesting the idea that a few μs are enough to have "chemistry". (Not glassware chemistry. In a few μs it would disintegrate while you are pouring it from the beaker to the test tube :) .) I think it's enough to have a HMu or Mu_2 or other thing that is similar to molecular hydrogen, and measure some of their properties like the spectrum. I think they still didn't make HMu or Mu_2, but those particle physicist in their tunnels are doing weird things. The mass of a muon is 1/10 of a proton and x100 the mass of a electron. A common approximation in computer simulation of molecules is to assume that atoms are so "heavy" that they are essentially still while the electrons "move around". I guess it's still a good approximation for muons. If you like this, you may enjoy reading about positronium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium The half live is x1000 shorter, but they are easer to produce. I'm wondering if that's enough to get "chemistry", but I guess no. Anyway, the chemical properties would be too strange because the positron is too light.

Y_Y 4y ago
In fact the proton-electron mass ratio is often a parameter (!) in plasma simulations. It turns out going from ~1/1837 to something like 1/100 makes things numerically easier without breaking the physics.
knicholes 4y ago
I'm not a chemist, but what do you mean it would disintegrate? Like it's literally disintegrating into smaller atoms?
- pknomad 4y ago
  Not a chemist either (took organic and baby pchem a while ago tho), but I believe he means it would just fall apart since there's no strong force or weak force to keep it together the way it would for a typical atoms. Muon's a fermion so it can't disintegrate into smaller atoms.
- fsh 4y ago
  The muon decays into a positron and a pair of neutrinos: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon#Muon_decay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muon#Muon_decay
  - gus_massa 4y ago
    The reaction would be Muon + Electron -> (Positron + Neutrino + Antinutrino) + Electron -> (Positron + Electron) + Neutrino + Antinutrino -> (Photon + Photon) + Neutrino + Antinutrino -> Photon + Photon + Neutrino + Antinutrino The Neutrino and Antineutrino would pass through you, the lab and the whole Earth, almost without interactions, so it's safe to ignore them. The photons will be very energetic and be actually Gamma Rays. Option 1) If it's a tiny amount like the one that can actually be produced, you will get a a few gamma ray. Option 2) If you can see the drop of liquid Mu_2 in the beaker, you will probably see a flash of gamma rays that will kill you and everyone in the lab. I'm too lazy to calculations but I guess an explosion of a few megatones (that is like a modern nuclear bomb). Also, perhaps many of the Electrons and Positrons will not colide immediately, and you would be showered also with some beta radiation. But the Positrons will colide after a short time and release the energy as gamma rays anyway. The exact amount of destruction of a drop of Mu_2 is a good question for https://what-if.xkcd.com/ https://what-if.xkcd.com/
anonymouskimmer 4y ago
> "Except the idea to add it to the periodic table, that is weird." It's weird because as indicated in your and other comments, having a different basis for the nucleus of its atoms, muonic elements would be on a completely separate periodic table from protonic elements.
fsh 4y ago
Ps_2 molecules have been observed in 2007: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature06094 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature06094
- gus_massa 4y ago
  More "chemistry" than what imagined: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di-positronium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Di-positronium https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium_hydride https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positronium_hydride