4 ms·

That and I wonder if this person has a support system that allows them to self isolate? They still need to pay rent, etc.

by diob 4y ago

lostlogin 4y ago
On a related note, are they getting solitary confinement?
- classichasclass 4y ago
  Yes, and usually negative pressure. Most jails above a certain size will have at least one or two negative pressure rooms for inmates who may have such illnesses.
MrLeap 4y ago
I wondered this too. There's rock-and-a-hard place economic scenarios I'd feel a lot of compassion for. Is it one of those, or is she just woefully capricious/willfully defiant? The coverage makes it hard for me to draw conclusions.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
> "We assess that balance between restricting somebody’s liberty and protecting the health of the community. We also want to make sure that we have time for the person to comply and try lots of different options that are short of requiring somebody to be detained," he added. "Incarceration detention is the very, very last option that we want to take and we don’t do that lightly. But occasionally that becomes necessary if there is a risk to the public." Also, as noted in the article: she went to the ER complaining of chest pain, knew she was TB positive, and did not tell anyone. She was a passenger in a car while sick with both TB and COVID. She's not disobeying because she doesn't have a support system. She's disobeying because she's a selfish asshole. Why after a year of her clearly being a plague rat the court is only just getting to threatening her with electronic monitoring or confinement is beyond me. She should have been given a court order, and then upon failing to follow it, involuntarily confined until she submitted to treatment. I am completely exhausted by our government's nearly endless toleration of people spreading highly contagious diseases.
- vuln 4y ago
  I'll at least play devils advocate. Due to lack of information about the individual I wonder if language is a barrier. If their reasoning behind not seeking treatment is due to historical systemic racism within the medical community. Perhaps is a financial decision like others have stated. From the documents we can see she is ordered to confine to "her residence" but according to the documents that location changed many times. Which leads me to believe this person may be without a home. The government can deem a shelter as her residence. Should she quarantine there or with family members or friends? I believe there is a lot of nuance to these situations which may be why the state government has treaded lightly.
- dTal 4y ago
  >She's not disobeying because she doesn't have a support system. She's disobeying because she's a selfish asshole. That might be satisfying to say, but it doesn't really solve anything on a systemic level. I think it's worth exploring how people become selfish assholes. I strongly suspect that a lack of trust in society, stemming from being repeatedly fucked over, is a primary cause. You can't expect people to show loyalty to a society that makes no secret of the fact it doesn't care about them. I'm not implying anything in particular about this case. I'm just encouraging you, in the most general terms, not to let your thoughts terminate there, and to keep pulling on that "root cause" string.
classichasclass 4y ago
In California, and I'm sure many places in Washington state are the same, we have financial assistance for exactly this reason. We'll help with the rent, groceries, bills, etc. while they're on respiratory isolation (this doesn't usually last more than a couple weeks, but that can still be a lot of lost work time), and get them to and from clinic visits and handle their directly observed therapy. We don't want these people untreated and it's as big a financial burden to them as you say it is. Source: public health TB physician for 15+ years
- bdcravens 4y ago
  > this doesn't usually last more than a couple weeks, but that can still be a lot of lost work time Are there protections against them losing their job?
  - classichasclass 4y ago
    (IANAL) California is an at-will state generally, so the answer is usually no. It is illegal in California for someone to be terminated for using their accrued sick leave, and firing someone solely on their medical condition is also illegal. But these are folks who can't afford a prolonged employment discrimination lawsuit, and I've had patients lose their jobs for "other reasons," which an employer can easily come up with if they want someone gone.
  - plandis 4y ago
    Presumably FMLA would protect their job.

That and I wonder if this person has a support system that allows them to self isolate? They still need to pay rent, etc.

by diob 4y ago

That and I wonder if this person has a support system that allows them to self isolate? They still need to pay rent, etc.

lostlogin 4y ago

On a related note, are they getting solitary confinement?

classichasclass 4y ago
Yes, and usually negative pressure. Most jails above a certain size will have at least one or two negative pressure rooms for inmates who may have such illnesses.

MrLeap 4y ago

I wondered this too. There's rock-and-a-hard place economic scenarios I'd feel a lot of compassion for. Is it one of those, or is she just woefully capricious/willfully defiant? The coverage makes it hard for me to draw conclusions.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

> "We assess that balance between restricting somebody’s liberty and protecting the health of the community. We also want to make sure that we have time for the person to comply and try lots of different options that are short of requiring somebody to be detained," he added. "Incarceration detention is the very, very last option that we want to take and we don’t do that lightly. But occasionally that becomes necessary if there is a risk to the public." Also, as noted in the article: she went to the ER complaining of chest pain, knew she was TB positive, and did not tell anyone. She was a passenger in a car while sick with both TB and COVID. She's not disobeying because she doesn't have a support system. She's disobeying because she's a selfish asshole. Why after a year of her clearly being a plague rat the court is only just getting to threatening her with electronic monitoring or confinement is beyond me. She should have been given a court order, and then upon failing to follow it, involuntarily confined until she submitted to treatment. I am completely exhausted by our government's nearly endless toleration of people spreading highly contagious diseases.

vuln 4y ago
I'll at least play devils advocate. Due to lack of information about the individual I wonder if language is a barrier. If their reasoning behind not seeking treatment is due to historical systemic racism within the medical community. Perhaps is a financial decision like others have stated. From the documents we can see she is ordered to confine to "her residence" but according to the documents that location changed many times. Which leads me to believe this person may be without a home. The government can deem a shelter as her residence. Should she quarantine there or with family members or friends? I believe there is a lot of nuance to these situations which may be why the state government has treaded lightly.
dTal 4y ago
>She's not disobeying because she doesn't have a support system. She's disobeying because she's a selfish asshole. That might be satisfying to say, but it doesn't really solve anything on a systemic level. I think it's worth exploring how people become selfish assholes. I strongly suspect that a lack of trust in society, stemming from being repeatedly fucked over, is a primary cause. You can't expect people to show loyalty to a society that makes no secret of the fact it doesn't care about them. I'm not implying anything in particular about this case. I'm just encouraging you, in the most general terms, not to let your thoughts terminate there, and to keep pulling on that "root cause" string.

classichasclass 4y ago

In California, and I'm sure many places in Washington state are the same, we have financial assistance for exactly this reason. We'll help with the rent, groceries, bills, etc. while they're on respiratory isolation (this doesn't usually last more than a couple weeks, but that can still be a lot of lost work time), and get them to and from clinic visits and handle their directly observed therapy. We don't want these people untreated and it's as big a financial burden to them as you say it is. Source: public health TB physician for 15+ years

bdcravens 4y ago
> this doesn't usually last more than a couple weeks, but that can still be a lot of lost work time Are there protections against them losing their job?
- classichasclass 4y ago
  (IANAL) California is an at-will state generally, so the answer is usually no. It is illegal in California for someone to be terminated for using their accrued sick leave, and firing someone solely on their medical condition is also illegal. But these are folks who can't afford a prolonged employment discrimination lawsuit, and I've had patients lose their jobs for "other reasons," which an employer can easily come up with if they want someone gone.
- plandis 4y ago
  Presumably FMLA would protect their job.