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We're not even teaching it anything, all we're really doing is setting up a behaviorist training regime that lets it reproduce some of the biases of some of us,
by inimino 4y ago
We're not even teaching it anything, all we're really doing is setting up a behaviorist training regime that lets it reproduce some of the biases of some of us, just well enough to squeeze through the Overton window that's acceptable to big corporates.
- ben_w 4y agoI think that counts as teaching.
- inimino 4y agoClose enough, I'm just peevish about that word. Teaching is miles away from anything in ML or deep learning practice today.
- pffft8888 4y agoI was speaking in English and doing so concisely to convey the point about bias transfer. I don’t really care what you call it. I could have said RLHF and blacklisting sources or curating training dataset. I know bias when I see it and the LLM does not come up with it on its own if trained on all data out there because for one thing the world is large with all kinds of opinions. When it refuses to legitimize all opinions equally as opinions and starts arguing with the user about why some opinions are more valid than others (aka widely accepted) even as it admits presence of ample evidence to the contrary then it is learned bias.
- inimino 4y agoYes, it's a sample of all opinions in the training set. It has no opinion of its own, even no place of its own to stand from which to have an opinion. There can be no bias without reference to some ground truth, and there's no general agreement on that in most of the areas where people are talking about these topics. It's a messy area, not helped by how few people understand how these systems work.
- pffft8888 4y ago@inimino I'm saying there is plenty of bias that is being enforced whether it's via dataset curation or RLHF or another way. ChatGPT has a very hard problem deviating from a certain political view of the world, despite admitting to the existence of evidence that contradict that view. That is not unbiased. The Web is unbiased. You can find every opnion out there and make up your mind based on the evidence. For some reason, ChatGPT filters the web through a narrow political lens. I have tons and tons of recorded sessions, but I don't want to turn this thread into a political debate. Just saying...
- inimino 4y agoNo, I agree. The Web is unbiased (as a reflection of the views of average web users, though that is itself a bias) or at least it mostly is (certainly was in the early days) and reflecting that evenly would be politically untenable. However we use "bias" normally in a much looser way, and if you want to define bias relative to some agreed-upon standard of truth, now you have a definitional (and political) problem. Most people have strong political opinions and such conversations tend to go off the rails easily.
- pffft8888 4y agoI define bias as not treating all political and philosophical opinions equally. If one is picked over the others, that is bias. I saw this bias and made many records of it in case of ChatGPT.
- ben_w 4y agoBy that definition it's not possible to be unbiased, because moral relativity is itself a position.
- inimino 4y agoI think the point is when taking information from some source (like the web) to just represent that source fairly, which is a reasonable expectation of a search engine, for example.