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> The only reason to allow these drones/balloons to operate freely is if we already have effective anti-drone measures that we're keeping secret, in order to go

> The only reason to allow these drones/balloons to operate freely is if we already have effective anti-drone measures that we're keeping secret, in order to goad an enemy into a false sense of security -- which the article also considers but then dismisses as unlikely. My question is what do we gain from showing them we can shoot them down? how much more detailed of info are they getting from these drones that they aren't getting from LEO satellites? Shooting them down just gives whatever opponents test data for getting past our defences when they potentially actually need to in the future when they're actively hostile.

crazygringo 4y ago
The article explains they could be collecting "extremely high-quality electronic intelligence data on... America's most capable air defense systems... that is very hard to reliably obtain otherwise. These radar emissions, and the datalink communications that go along with them, underpin highly networked counter-air architectures that are unmatched anywhere on earth. By gathering comprehensive electronic intelligence information on these systems, countermeasures and electronic warfare tactics can be developed to disrupt or defeat them." That's the stuff you don't get from LEO satellites.
- andy_ppp 4y ago
  There’s always an imagination that China is better than us at this and from reading between the lines at what the TLAs are able to do they aren’t even close.
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    I don't think underestimating your opponent has generally proven to be an effective military strategy. If these spy drones and balloons exist, then you can sure bet they're doing something of value. Militaries don't design and fly these things for the fun of it. And why are you assuming it's only a problem if they're better than us at it? We could be spying on them even more effectively, but that's not a reason to not prevent them from doing the same to us.
    - sidewndr46 4y ago
      You're making the assumption that the intelligence apparatus of foreign countries is some purely rational actor. You can bet they are doing something of value, but that doesn't make the bet correct. For all we know, China may have decided that every Baptist church is a possible nuclear launch site and that they all need to be priority #1 for surveillance. Particularly on Wednesday nights when all the folks in the surrounding community come in early in the evening and sometimes don't leave until late at night.
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  I know that the Soviets had radars that were not normally on - they were only on when defending against an incursion or attack. I do not know, but I wouldn't be surprised if the US also had such radars. If they're here to try to assess our air defense network, then a reasonable response is don't turn it on. Don't turn on the best radars. Don't turn on the data links from the air combat control centers to the air force bases (or to the planes in the air). Sure, they can see the vanilla stuff better than they can from a satellite. But if the good stuff is off, they don't find out much about it.
  - crazygringo 4y ago
    You need to turn that stuff on in order to test it though. To run drills and exercises and make sure people are using it correctly and build experience with it. No?
    - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
      Of course. But you don't need to run those drills while there's a foreign surveillance drone in the neighborhood.
  - justsomehnguy 4y ago
    Search and acquisition radars. Or, most of the time, the same radars as always but with a lot more power. But more power => more noise for the neighbours, more heat, less operating time, yada-yada. > don't turn it on There is no need to? It was detected long ago and was followed both with radio and visually.
deleted 4y ago
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crazygringo 4y ago

The article explains they could be collecting "extremely high-quality electronic intelligence data on... America's most capable air defense systems... that is very hard to reliably obtain otherwise. These radar emissions, and the datalink communications that go along with them, underpin highly networked counter-air architectures that are unmatched anywhere on earth. By gathering comprehensive electronic intelligence information on these systems, countermeasures and electronic warfare tactics can be developed to disrupt or defeat them." That's the stuff you don't get from LEO satellites.

andy_ppp 4y ago
There’s always an imagination that China is better than us at this and from reading between the lines at what the TLAs are able to do they aren’t even close.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  I don't think underestimating your opponent has generally proven to be an effective military strategy. If these spy drones and balloons exist, then you can sure bet they're doing something of value. Militaries don't design and fly these things for the fun of it. And why are you assuming it's only a problem if they're better than us at it? We could be spying on them even more effectively, but that's not a reason to not prevent them from doing the same to us.
  - sidewndr46 4y ago
    You're making the assumption that the intelligence apparatus of foreign countries is some purely rational actor. You can bet they are doing something of value, but that doesn't make the bet correct. For all we know, China may have decided that every Baptist church is a possible nuclear launch site and that they all need to be priority #1 for surveillance. Particularly on Wednesday nights when all the folks in the surrounding community come in early in the evening and sometimes don't leave until late at night.
AnimalMuppet 4y ago
I know that the Soviets had radars that were not normally on - they were only on when defending against an incursion or attack. I do not know, but I wouldn't be surprised if the US also had such radars. If they're here to try to assess our air defense network, then a reasonable response is don't turn it on. Don't turn on the best radars. Don't turn on the data links from the air combat control centers to the air force bases (or to the planes in the air). Sure, they can see the vanilla stuff better than they can from a satellite. But if the good stuff is off, they don't find out much about it.
- crazygringo 4y ago
  You need to turn that stuff on in order to test it though. To run drills and exercises and make sure people are using it correctly and build experience with it. No?
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    Of course. But you don't need to run those drills while there's a foreign surveillance drone in the neighborhood.
- justsomehnguy 4y ago
  Search and acquisition radars. Or, most of the time, the same radars as always but with a lot more power. But more power => more noise for the neighbours, more heat, less operating time, yada-yada. > don't turn it on There is no need to? It was detected long ago and was followed both with radio and visually.

deleted 4y ago

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