13 ms·

Selling a 300-Year-Old Cello

42 points by pg 15y ago

jaylevitt 15y ago
For the love of God, do NOT let the buyer use Paypal.
aarghh 15y ago
WNYC interviewed Elena Deblanco today - very poignant: http://www.wnyc.org/npr_articles/2012/jan/15/daughter-auctions-stradivari-cello-to-hear-it-again/ http://www.wnyc.org/npr_articles/2012/jan/15/daughter-auctio...
dbalatero 15y ago
Old string instruments get pretty insane in price. My old teacher plays on a cello that's worth ~$1 million, and interestingly enough, he got a group of 10 investors to each put down $100k (not unlike angel investing I suppose). It's win-win: the instrument is pretty much guaranteed to appreciate in value, especially with a serious artist performing on it, and the artist gets to play on a instrument that doesn't hold them back in terms of expressiveness/tone quality.
- mynameishere 15y ago
  pretty much guaranteed to appreciate in value Well, that's not how an efficient market behaves. But then this isn't an efficient market. It's a market with gigantic...gigantic...inefficiency. What price would I put on a strad? 500 dollars maybe. After all, it sounds about as good as other 500 dollar violins, worse for wear and tear. At some point, the evaluation of real value and the romanticism of history are going to collide. This is more common in art, where the name "Picasso" out-values all the beauty that man ever produced. You can buy many thousands of prints for the price of single original. Why? Romance. 124 thousand pounds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit
  - corin_ 15y ago
    You're pretty much completely wrong. 1.) String instruments (possibly others too? I've no idea) generally improve by being skilfully played, a cello that has been played for a long time by Yo Yo Ma will actually be better than it was before he played it. 2.) As with any piece of art, or antique, age is a factor, and as such instruments appreciating in value as time goes on is pretty understandable. 3.) It's exactly how an efficient market behaves - items are valued at what people are willing to pay for them. That's how markets always work.
    - mvgoogler 15y ago
      "1.) String instruments (possibly others too? I've no idea) generally improve by being skilfully played, a cello that has been played for a long time by Yo Yo Ma will actually be better than it was before he played it." Do you have any sources for this? I've never heard this before. It's easy to imagine how unskilled players could make an instrument worse, but it's hard for me to imagine how it would work the other way. Is it really related to the skill-level of the player, or are skilled player just more likely to care for the instrument properly? I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just genuinely curious...
      - corin_ 15y ago
        I don't, but will have a look around in the morning as I'm about to head to bed (UK time). My source is the opinion of numerous music professionals, I first heard it at a young age from my cello teacher (a former concert cellist), and since then from a number of high-level professional cellists and violinists. That said, it's possible I was wrong to think that it is the case for ancient instruments such as strads, it might only be the case for younger instruments. I don't think it's anything to do with caring for instruments, but actually a case of the way it is played. I'll get back to you, hopefully!
        mvgoogler 15y ago
        Thanks! I'd be interested to read anything you have. I just started playing violin about a month ago, so it piqued my interest.
pclark 15y ago
When I worked at Lloyds of London I met some of the guys that focus on antique instruments - and one of the claims they had was a professional musician that ran over his 300 year old violin with his car. oops. (and yep, the "no strings attached insurance" puns never ended)
- malbs 15y ago
  How does the insurance even work on something like that. New for old just doesn't even begin to come close.
  - pclark 15y ago
    They got it repaired I believe; I think I read somewhere that it took a year.
51Cards 15y ago
This is a bit of an aside from the article but I am an antique pocket watch collector. I have dozens of watches over 100 years old and a few in the 250 year range. The obvious first thought is to say I 'own' those watches. However, when you have an object of that age in your hand, and you really consider its age, how many other people have cherished it for their lifetime, and that it will probably exist long after I am forgotten, you realize that you're really just the next temporary caretaker. For me anyhow it puts things into some perspective.
- kawera 15y ago
  http://patekwatch.blogspot.com/2011/05/patek-philippe-ad-reference-5205g.html http://patekwatch.blogspot.com/2011/05/patek-philippe-ad-ref... http://patekwatch.blogspot.com/2011/11/patek-philippe-calatrava-ad-reference.html http://patekwatch.blogspot.com/2011/11/patek-philippe-calatr...
  - 51Cards 15y ago
    Brilliant! Thank you, hadn't seen those before.

42 points by pg 15y ago

For the love of God, do NOT let the buyer use Paypal.

WNYC interviewed Elena Deblanco today - very poignant: http://www.wnyc.org/npr_articles/2012/jan/15/daughter-auctions-stradivari-cello-to-hear-it-again/ http://www.wnyc.org/npr_articles/2012/jan/15/daughter-auctio...

dbalatero 15y ago

Old string instruments get pretty insane in price. My old teacher plays on a cello that's worth ~$1 million, and interestingly enough, he got a group of 10 investors to each put down $100k (not unlike angel investing I suppose). It's win-win: the instrument is pretty much guaranteed to appreciate in value, especially with a serious artist performing on it, and the artist gets to play on a instrument that doesn't hold them back in terms of expressiveness/tone quality.

mynameishere 15y ago
pretty much guaranteed to appreciate in value Well, that's not how an efficient market behaves. But then this isn't an efficient market. It's a market with gigantic...gigantic...inefficiency. What price would I put on a strad? 500 dollars maybe. After all, it sounds about as good as other 500 dollar violins, worse for wear and tear. At some point, the evaluation of real value and the romanticism of history are going to collide. This is more common in art, where the name "Picasso" out-values all the beauty that man ever produced. You can buy many thousands of prints for the price of single original. Why? Romance. 124 thousand pounds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit
- corin_ 15y ago
  You're pretty much completely wrong. 1.) String instruments (possibly others too? I've no idea) generally improve by being skilfully played, a cello that has been played for a long time by Yo Yo Ma will actually be better than it was before he played it. 2.) As with any piece of art, or antique, age is a factor, and as such instruments appreciating in value as time goes on is pretty understandable. 3.) It's exactly how an efficient market behaves - items are valued at what people are willing to pay for them. That's how markets always work.
  - mvgoogler 15y ago
    "1.) String instruments (possibly others too? I've no idea) generally improve by being skilfully played, a cello that has been played for a long time by Yo Yo Ma will actually be better than it was before he played it." Do you have any sources for this? I've never heard this before. It's easy to imagine how unskilled players could make an instrument worse, but it's hard for me to imagine how it would work the other way. Is it really related to the skill-level of the player, or are skilled player just more likely to care for the instrument properly? I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just genuinely curious...
    - corin_ 15y ago
      I don't, but will have a look around in the morning as I'm about to head to bed (UK time). My source is the opinion of numerous music professionals, I first heard it at a young age from my cello teacher (a former concert cellist), and since then from a number of high-level professional cellists and violinists. That said, it's possible I was wrong to think that it is the case for ancient instruments such as strads, it might only be the case for younger instruments. I don't think it's anything to do with caring for instruments, but actually a case of the way it is played. I'll get back to you, hopefully!
      - mvgoogler 15y ago
        Thanks! I'd be interested to read anything you have. I just started playing violin about a month ago, so it piqued my interest.

pclark 15y ago

When I worked at Lloyds of London I met some of the guys that focus on antique instruments - and one of the claims they had was a professional musician that ran over his 300 year old violin with his car. oops. (and yep, the "no strings attached insurance" puns never ended)

malbs 15y ago
How does the insurance even work on something like that. New for old just doesn't even begin to come close.
- pclark 15y ago
  They got it repaired I believe; I think I read somewhere that it took a year.

51Cards 15y ago

This is a bit of an aside from the article but I am an antique pocket watch collector. I have dozens of watches over 100 years old and a few in the 250 year range. The obvious first thought is to say I 'own' those watches. However, when you have an object of that age in your hand, and you really consider its age, how many other people have cherished it for their lifetime, and that it will probably exist long after I am forgotten, you realize that you're really just the next temporary caretaker. For me anyhow it puts things into some perspective.

kawera 15y ago
http://patekwatch.blogspot.com/2011/05/patek-philippe-ad-reference-5205g.html http://patekwatch.blogspot.com/2011/05/patek-philippe-ad-ref... http://patekwatch.blogspot.com/2011/11/patek-philippe-calatrava-ad-reference.html http://patekwatch.blogspot.com/2011/11/patek-philippe-calatr...
- 51Cards 15y ago
  Brilliant! Thank you, hadn't seen those before.