5 ms·

Not if you lived in the Balkans.

by zirgs 4y ago

snowpid 4y ago
or Eastern Europe in general.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  Depends which part, but generally I disagree as being a teenager during those times. Imagine 2 generations who never experienced freedom of travel, freedom of speech or any other type of it we take for granted now. And suddenly you could travel. Sure, you most probably didn't have means for anything extravagant or frequent, but you still could actually travel, and nobody would shoot you like a rabid dog on the border or throw you into uranium mines for a decade or two to just die there. It was wild time, local mafias, few people dissolved in acid (but generally due to close association with mobsters). People progressively getting richer, not ending up rich but if you start very low any progress is massive. You could see it ie in car ownership - before car parks around were often half empty, but they were gradually filling up (and now they are overflowing). Of course there were losers, people who worked for decades in a factory in the middle of nowhere and it suddenly went bankrupt. Too stubborn/scared of change to move elsewhere, slide into alcoholism (if not there already) and long term unemployment. Transition from communism was universally messed up and just few ahole got obscenely rich. Smart people had endless possibilities, rest was still one foot in old regime which was just about coarsing, slacking or worse. Pretty awesome to experience, of course hindsight is required.
  - zirgs 4y ago
    Tbh - USSR citizens could travel. Sure - their tourist groups had to have a KGB agent/informant attached, but it wasn't like North Korea. My grandpa visited Italy, Egypt, Cuba and India. I doubt that NK citizens can do it now unless they are high-ranking party members.
    - saiya-jin 4y ago
      My parents were denied in late 80s even trip to former Yugoslavia, which was a neutral state (but you could escape from there to Austria). They really wanted to show their kiddo a nice sea, nothing more, for landlocked countries it was a very special experience. They were not dissidents or anything, both university educated (which was a rarity back then and people had to actually study hard unlike these days due to messed up incentives, but thats another topic). Heck, even travel to Poland which was neighbor and communist as much as us was very complicated and frequently denied. My father, after maybe 2 years of attempts to get approval for travel to Yugoslavia, ended up in dark lit room with just 1 guy from secret service sitting behind the desk. The guy just stared at him for 45 minutes straight, eye to eye, no word uttered. Absolute power and its projection. Of course, denied. That was former Czechoslovakia, Slovakia part. I've heard some people could travel a bit more, but generally there were reasons for that and they were not nice reasons. At least I can say I am proud of my parents for keeping their morals when there were strong motivations to betray them.
- zirgs 4y ago
  Tbh - I was a kid back then so it wasn't that bad. But for adults hyperinflation, economic collapse and skyrocketing crime wasn't that fun.
- msikora 4y ago
  I came of age in Slovakia in the 90s and it was a great time. There were many many problems, and things are a lot better now, but it was a ton better than during the communist dictatorship that collapsed in 1989. Slovakia and Czechia are technically Central Europe, but it was part of the Eastern Bloc and USSR sphere of influence. I know Russia and other former USSR had a rough time during the 90s, but for many other countries from the Bloc it was a major improvement over the 80s (those countries that are now in the EU/NATO and generally considered to be a part of the "West" these days). Like for example Romania, even with some major major problems, was certainly better in the 90s than during the brutal Ceausescu's regime. Or Eastern Germany that got to reunite with it's long lost brother.
ianburrell 4y ago
Or the third world. There has been a lot of economic growth since the 90s, in particular in China. China's economy grew a lot in the 90s but was still pretty poor by end of decade. China now has economy that is close to low developed levels. Another good example is extreme poverty. Which dropped from 1.8 billion to 1.6 billion in 90s and to 710 million by 2021. A billion people not having the immediate experience of hunger is a big win.
- TheCoelacanth 4y ago
  And it's an even larger drop if you look at it as a percentage of population. More than 30% in 1990 vs. less than 10% now.

Not if you lived in the Balkans.

by zirgs 4y ago

Not if you lived in the Balkans.

snowpid 4y ago

or Eastern Europe in general.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
saiya-jin 4y ago
Depends which part, but generally I disagree as being a teenager during those times. Imagine 2 generations who never experienced freedom of travel, freedom of speech or any other type of it we take for granted now. And suddenly you could travel. Sure, you most probably didn't have means for anything extravagant or frequent, but you still could actually travel, and nobody would shoot you like a rabid dog on the border or throw you into uranium mines for a decade or two to just die there. It was wild time, local mafias, few people dissolved in acid (but generally due to close association with mobsters). People progressively getting richer, not ending up rich but if you start very low any progress is massive. You could see it ie in car ownership - before car parks around were often half empty, but they were gradually filling up (and now they are overflowing). Of course there were losers, people who worked for decades in a factory in the middle of nowhere and it suddenly went bankrupt. Too stubborn/scared of change to move elsewhere, slide into alcoholism (if not there already) and long term unemployment. Transition from communism was universally messed up and just few ahole got obscenely rich. Smart people had endless possibilities, rest was still one foot in old regime which was just about coarsing, slacking or worse. Pretty awesome to experience, of course hindsight is required.
- zirgs 4y ago
  Tbh - USSR citizens could travel. Sure - their tourist groups had to have a KGB agent/informant attached, but it wasn't like North Korea. My grandpa visited Italy, Egypt, Cuba and India. I doubt that NK citizens can do it now unless they are high-ranking party members.
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    My parents were denied in late 80s even trip to former Yugoslavia, which was a neutral state (but you could escape from there to Austria). They really wanted to show their kiddo a nice sea, nothing more, for landlocked countries it was a very special experience. They were not dissidents or anything, both university educated (which was a rarity back then and people had to actually study hard unlike these days due to messed up incentives, but thats another topic). Heck, even travel to Poland which was neighbor and communist as much as us was very complicated and frequently denied. My father, after maybe 2 years of attempts to get approval for travel to Yugoslavia, ended up in dark lit room with just 1 guy from secret service sitting behind the desk. The guy just stared at him for 45 minutes straight, eye to eye, no word uttered. Absolute power and its projection. Of course, denied. That was former Czechoslovakia, Slovakia part. I've heard some people could travel a bit more, but generally there were reasons for that and they were not nice reasons. At least I can say I am proud of my parents for keeping their morals when there were strong motivations to betray them.
zirgs 4y ago
Tbh - I was a kid back then so it wasn't that bad. But for adults hyperinflation, economic collapse and skyrocketing crime wasn't that fun.
msikora 4y ago
I came of age in Slovakia in the 90s and it was a great time. There were many many problems, and things are a lot better now, but it was a ton better than during the communist dictatorship that collapsed in 1989. Slovakia and Czechia are technically Central Europe, but it was part of the Eastern Bloc and USSR sphere of influence. I know Russia and other former USSR had a rough time during the 90s, but for many other countries from the Bloc it was a major improvement over the 80s (those countries that are now in the EU/NATO and generally considered to be a part of the "West" these days). Like for example Romania, even with some major major problems, was certainly better in the 90s than during the brutal Ceausescu's regime. Or Eastern Germany that got to reunite with it's long lost brother.

ianburrell 4y ago

Or the third world. There has been a lot of economic growth since the 90s, in particular in China. China's economy grew a lot in the 90s but was still pretty poor by end of decade. China now has economy that is close to low developed levels. Another good example is extreme poverty. Which dropped from 1.8 billion to 1.6 billion in 90s and to 710 million by 2021. A billion people not having the immediate experience of hunger is a big win.

TheCoelacanth 4y ago
And it's an even larger drop if you look at it as a percentage of population. More than 30% in 1990 vs. less than 10% now.