61 ms·

Response didn't work. Sweden without lockdown fared better than US and with lockdowns. https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/ http

by slaw 4y ago

Response didn't work. Sweden without lockdown fared better than US and with lockdowns. https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-...

vkou 4y ago
You're making a great argument to throw out US culture wholesale and replace it with Swedish culture. If we just do that, it sounds like we won't need lockdowns, and all sorts of other annoying and bad things like EPOs and PPOs and metal detectors in schools and the highest incarceration rate in the world. It's weird how the 'Sweden does it better' argument always gets meaningful traction when it comes to lockdowns, but never with healthcare, or civics, or gun culture.
- captainbland 4y ago
  Let's not forget social security and trade union/collective bargaining participation.
- slaw 4y ago
  Compare California with strict lockowns to Florida with more relaxed lockdowns. There is not significant difference with excessive deaths.
  - vkou 4y ago
    Compare how they were implemented in practice[1], outside of parts of SF and LA. Nobody remotely followed the rules in the rest of the state. Again, Sweeden didn't have a low excess death rate because they didn't do lockdowns, they had a low excess death rate because people in Sweeden acted responsibly to control the spread. Instead of harping on about lockdowns, why aren't we harping on about developing social responsibility, instead? (The answer is obvious - it's in direct contradiction to the 'ME, ME, ME' culture we put on a pedestal here.) [1] Even in theory, they were not meaningful. China had meaningful lockdowns, ours looked more like someone LARPing at doing a lockdown.
    - slaw 4y ago
      So people died outside of SF and LA? Lockdowns were useless.
LatteLazy 4y ago
The per capita death rate for Covid 19 was 50% higher in Sweden than the US. That is a 4 times higher than neighbouring, comparable Denmark. It was the highest in Europe despite an advanced healthcare system, most people in Sweden living alone (you read that right) and much lower levels of chronic disease among other advantages... https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-in-sweden-and-you-cant-compare-it-to-u-s#Swedes-have-high-confidence-in-public-health https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-i...
- orangecat 4y ago
  The per capita death rate for Covid 19 was 50% higher in Sweden than the US. That is a 4 times higher than neighbouring, comparable Denmark. It was the highest in Europe That article is from 2020. Today Sweden is 44th in deaths per million, behind the US, UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, etc (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/).
  - LatteLazy 4y ago
    Yeah, because the "Swedish approach" was so obviously doing so badly Sweden abandoned it and passed new strict quarantine laws in 2021. So they started improving. Meanwhile the US and UK couldn't be bothered to continue lockdowns, France's anti-vax issues became important as vaccines became available etc etc. From wiki: >On 18 December 2020, Stefan Löfven, the prime minister of Sweden, announced new and tougher restrictions and recommendations including the use of face masks in public transportation and closure of all non-essential public services.[103] In January 2021, a new pandemic law was passed that allows for the use of lockdown measures and legally limited some gatherings.[104] Further measures were introduced in July and December 2021, such as vaccine passports. >Reception for the government's response has been mixed. An independent commission was launched to evaluate the measures taken by the government, the administrative health authorities, and regional municipalities.[105] The commission criticized the response of the government, citing among other things a failure to protect the elderly population,[105] that the Swedish response was marked by slowness, with initial measures "insufficient to stop or even substantially limit the spread of the virus in the country," and that the Swedish healthcare system would face long-term consequences due to "the price of extreme pressure on staff and of cancelled and postponed care."[106] In their final report, the commission described Sweden not introducing lockdowns as "fundamentally correct" for maintaining personal freedoms, but were critical of the decisions not to introduce "more rigorous and intrusive disease prevention and control measures" in February and March 2020.[107] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden

by slaw 4y ago

vkou 4y ago

You're making a great argument to throw out US culture wholesale and replace it with Swedish culture. If we just do that, it sounds like we won't need lockdowns, and all sorts of other annoying and bad things like EPOs and PPOs and metal detectors in schools and the highest incarceration rate in the world. It's weird how the 'Sweden does it better' argument always gets meaningful traction when it comes to lockdowns, but never with healthcare, or civics, or gun culture.

captainbland 4y ago
Let's not forget social security and trade union/collective bargaining participation.
slaw 4y ago
Compare California with strict lockowns to Florida with more relaxed lockdowns. There is not significant difference with excessive deaths.
- vkou 4y ago
  Compare how they were implemented in practice[1], outside of parts of SF and LA. Nobody remotely followed the rules in the rest of the state. Again, Sweeden didn't have a low excess death rate because they didn't do lockdowns, they had a low excess death rate because people in Sweeden acted responsibly to control the spread. Instead of harping on about lockdowns, why aren't we harping on about developing social responsibility, instead? (The answer is obvious - it's in direct contradiction to the 'ME, ME, ME' culture we put on a pedestal here.) [1] Even in theory, they were not meaningful. China had meaningful lockdowns, ours looked more like someone LARPing at doing a lockdown.
  - slaw 4y ago
    So people died outside of SF and LA? Lockdowns were useless.

LatteLazy 4y ago

The per capita death rate for Covid 19 was 50% higher in Sweden than the US. That is a 4 times higher than neighbouring, comparable Denmark. It was the highest in Europe despite an advanced healthcare system, most people in Sweden living alone (you read that right) and much lower levels of chronic disease among other advantages... https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-in-sweden-and-you-cant-compare-it-to-u-s#Swedes-have-high-confidence-in-public-health https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-i...

orangecat 4y ago
The per capita death rate for Covid 19 was 50% higher in Sweden than the US. That is a 4 times higher than neighbouring, comparable Denmark. It was the highest in Europe That article is from 2020. Today Sweden is 44th in deaths per million, behind the US, UK, France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, etc (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/).
- LatteLazy 4y ago
  Yeah, because the "Swedish approach" was so obviously doing so badly Sweden abandoned it and passed new strict quarantine laws in 2021. So they started improving. Meanwhile the US and UK couldn't be bothered to continue lockdowns, France's anti-vax issues became important as vaccines became available etc etc. From wiki: >On 18 December 2020, Stefan Löfven, the prime minister of Sweden, announced new and tougher restrictions and recommendations including the use of face masks in public transportation and closure of all non-essential public services.[103] In January 2021, a new pandemic law was passed that allows for the use of lockdown measures and legally limited some gatherings.[104] Further measures were introduced in July and December 2021, such as vaccine passports. >Reception for the government's response has been mixed. An independent commission was launched to evaluate the measures taken by the government, the administrative health authorities, and regional municipalities.[105] The commission criticized the response of the government, citing among other things a failure to protect the elderly population,[105] that the Swedish response was marked by slowness, with initial measures "insufficient to stop or even substantially limit the spread of the virus in the country," and that the Swedish healthcare system would face long-term consequences due to "the price of extreme pressure on staff and of cancelled and postponed care."[106] In their final report, the commission described Sweden not introducing lockdowns as "fundamentally correct" for maintaining personal freedoms, but were critical of the decisions not to introduce "more rigorous and intrusive disease prevention and control measures" in February and March 2020.[107] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden