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Is this....a weird way to say that you want folks to have the ability to (checks notes) make transphobic comments and prevent other people from reacting? > but

Is this....a weird way to say that you want folks to have the ability to (checks notes) make transphobic comments and prevent other people from reacting? > but when do humans get to a point where we no longer have to appeal to the lowest common denominator? How is making transphobic remarks appealing to the opposite of the LCD of society. It appears that you are claiming some sort of social or moral superiority....to a person that makes hateful comments about someone's sexuality. > How can we take social issues that are already difficult within the same family unit and have a well-adjusted conversation about them at least in the public arena? Nothing about this story has anything at all to remotely do with a "conversation". > Maybe it's always been missing. I saw a commercial on TV yesterday, literally suggesting that telling someone they left their Starbucks on the roof of their car as they drive off is a heart-felt touching moment. Look, a corporation making an advertisement to emotionally effect you isn't evidence of "look at what I think is wrong with society today." I hope that this isn't lost as some sort of personal attack. Just take a step back and ask yourself why you thought it was a "heart-felt touching moment" vs. just "common decency." (Maybe it's because Starbucks wants to keep that ad in your head for longer! They are indeed hyper-effective at getting people's money all around the world!) If you want to have a conversation about transphobia, maybe ask yourself what is your personal goal. It is problematic if you envision yourself to be the center of something that, honestly judging by your writing, most likely does not affect you in the slightest. If you're not trans, it's probably best to stay out of it and don't try to stop the cultural and social changes that trans folks are advocating for.

xcxs 4y ago
[flagged]
- oneoff786 4y ago
  Its hard not to read this and think of Black only bathrooms. What exactly is the risk?
  - xcxs 4y ago
    Males commit the vast majority of sexual offences, murders and other violent crimes. We are talking over 80%-90%. This is why we have sex-segregated spaces like locker rooms, bathrooms and prisons, to reduce the risk to women from violent and sexually abusive men. It's nothing at all like black people being forced to use different bathrooms - this is a segregation that almost all women want to remain in place. It is also a safety issue in contact sports if males are allowed to compete with women.
    - flangola7 4y ago
      [flagged]
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      Oh good statistics. Tell me what proportion of sexual violence is perpetuated by trans women against non trans women? Or what kind of sexual violence is committed by men against women in unisex bathrooms? Or perhaps a study on whether the belief that forbidding trans women from entering women’s bathrooms would materially alter sexual violence rates at all? Because virtually all sexual violence is not a random on the spot violent rape and if it were it most certainly would not be abated by rules suggesting it’s not ok for you to enter a bathroom. > It is also a safety issue in contact sports if males are allowed to compete with women. Women’s sports rarely allow heavy contact, and we are plenty comfortable with other natural differences such as height and weight. We also have plenty of precedent for people playing things like Ultimate Frisbee as a contact co-ed sport and things are fine.
      - xcxs 4y ago
        https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-se... Trans-identifying males have the same patterns of criminality as other males. The ones in prison are even more likely to have been locked up for sex crimes, when compared to other men in prison.
        4y ago
- malcolmgreaves 4y ago
  > before every single-sex space for women no longer exists. This is a completely imagined problem. I don't want to outright accuse you of intentionally lying, because your writing comes off as more just severely uninformed. But where on earth do you come up with this opinion? > If you're a actual female woman though, > it's probably best to put some effort in to stopping these changes You're mistaking sex & gender here. They are indeed quite separate concepts. Perhaps this is why you're apparently resistant to accepting trans people as the gender they present themselves as? I want to be clear -- the changes are about accepting trans people in society. This does go hand-in-hand with reducing violence against trans people. If there's no acceptance, then the ones that hold the most extreme antagonizing viewpoints _do_ use violence. [1] Using language that others trans people, casts them out as not-women, dehumanizes them. When you dehumanize a person, you make it possible to objectify them. And when people are objects, people become ok with violence. You cannot ignore the reality that there exists not only people with body dysmorphia, but also folks that don't fall neatly into the XY or XX chromosome paradigm [2]. Nature, reality, does not fall into neat little ordered boxes. Everyone deserves a fair shake. And everyone deserves to be free of violence and legal discrimination for them simply existing. [1] https://www.hrc.org/resources/a-national-epidemic-fatal-anti-transgender-violence-in-america-in-2018 https://www.hrc.org/resources/a-national-epidemic-fatal-anti... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9396296/#:~:text=Classical%20disorders%20of%20sex%20chromosome,disorders%20have%20abnormal%20sex%20chromosome https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9396296/#:~:text=Classical%2....
  - xcxs 4y ago
    > This is a completely imagined problem. No it is not. I'm a bit surprised you have missed the news on this influx of males into women's spaces, to be honest, given how confident you are that this isn't happening. It's one of the most controversial cultural issues in the public eye right now. And many, many women are quite rightly furious about it. The worst is prisons. Males are being incarcerated in women's prisons and committing sexual assaults, rapes and impregnations upon the women locked up with them. > You're mistaking sex & gender here. They are indeed quite separate concepts. Perhaps this is why you're apparently resistant to accepting trans people as the gender they present themselves as? They can present however they want, that is not the issue. The problem is males imposing themselves on female-only spaces. Their claims of identity are irrelevant, they shouldn't be there at all.
twodave 4y ago
This is actually a great example of not giving the person communicating the most gracious interpretation. Look, all I'm saying is we'd all be a lot better off if we gave each other the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the intent of our words. I'm not trying to comment on the facts of the story, but more the way the story made me feel. I'm definitely not defending the kind of speech that targets and ridicules a group, whether generated or otherwise. I wish I could do a better job of sharing my heart here. As for the comment about the commercial, it was a bit of a tangent on an already-off-topic rant, but I think it describes some of our self-centeredness as a culture. "Oh, if you buy our product you'll feel like spreading the love by..." just not being a jerk? The fact that they ran that commercial means they think it'll resonate with the audience.

xcxs 4y ago

[flagged]

oneoff786 4y ago
Its hard not to read this and think of Black only bathrooms. What exactly is the risk?
- xcxs 4y ago
  Males commit the vast majority of sexual offences, murders and other violent crimes. We are talking over 80%-90%. This is why we have sex-segregated spaces like locker rooms, bathrooms and prisons, to reduce the risk to women from violent and sexually abusive men. It's nothing at all like black people being forced to use different bathrooms - this is a segregation that almost all women want to remain in place. It is also a safety issue in contact sports if males are allowed to compete with women.
  - flangola7 4y ago
    [flagged]
  - oneoff786 4y ago
    Oh good statistics. Tell me what proportion of sexual violence is perpetuated by trans women against non trans women? Or what kind of sexual violence is committed by men against women in unisex bathrooms? Or perhaps a study on whether the belief that forbidding trans women from entering women’s bathrooms would materially alter sexual violence rates at all? Because virtually all sexual violence is not a random on the spot violent rape and if it were it most certainly would not be abated by rules suggesting it’s not ok for you to enter a bathroom. > It is also a safety issue in contact sports if males are allowed to compete with women. Women’s sports rarely allow heavy contact, and we are plenty comfortable with other natural differences such as height and weight. We also have plenty of precedent for people playing things like Ultimate Frisbee as a contact co-ed sport and things are fine.
    - xcxs 4y ago
      https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-se... Trans-identifying males have the same patterns of criminality as other males. The ones in prison are even more likely to have been locked up for sex crimes, when compared to other men in prison.
      - 4y ago
malcolmgreaves 4y ago
> before every single-sex space for women no longer exists. This is a completely imagined problem. I don't want to outright accuse you of intentionally lying, because your writing comes off as more just severely uninformed. But where on earth do you come up with this opinion? > If you're a actual female woman though, > it's probably best to put some effort in to stopping these changes You're mistaking sex & gender here. They are indeed quite separate concepts. Perhaps this is why you're apparently resistant to accepting trans people as the gender they present themselves as? I want to be clear -- the changes are about accepting trans people in society. This does go hand-in-hand with reducing violence against trans people. If there's no acceptance, then the ones that hold the most extreme antagonizing viewpoints _do_ use violence. [1] Using language that others trans people, casts them out as not-women, dehumanizes them. When you dehumanize a person, you make it possible to objectify them. And when people are objects, people become ok with violence. You cannot ignore the reality that there exists not only people with body dysmorphia, but also folks that don't fall neatly into the XY or XX chromosome paradigm [2]. Nature, reality, does not fall into neat little ordered boxes. Everyone deserves a fair shake. And everyone deserves to be free of violence and legal discrimination for them simply existing. [1] https://www.hrc.org/resources/a-national-epidemic-fatal-anti-transgender-violence-in-america-in-2018 https://www.hrc.org/resources/a-national-epidemic-fatal-anti... [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9396296/#:~:text=Classical%20disorders%20of%20sex%20chromosome,disorders%20have%20abnormal%20sex%20chromosome https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9396296/#:~:text=Classical%2....
- xcxs 4y ago
  > This is a completely imagined problem. No it is not. I'm a bit surprised you have missed the news on this influx of males into women's spaces, to be honest, given how confident you are that this isn't happening. It's one of the most controversial cultural issues in the public eye right now. And many, many women are quite rightly furious about it. The worst is prisons. Males are being incarcerated in women's prisons and committing sexual assaults, rapes and impregnations upon the women locked up with them. > You're mistaking sex & gender here. They are indeed quite separate concepts. Perhaps this is why you're apparently resistant to accepting trans people as the gender they present themselves as? They can present however they want, that is not the issue. The problem is males imposing themselves on female-only spaces. Their claims of identity are irrelevant, they shouldn't be there at all.

twodave 4y ago

This is actually a great example of not giving the person communicating the most gracious interpretation. Look, all I'm saying is we'd all be a lot better off if we gave each other the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the intent of our words. I'm not trying to comment on the facts of the story, but more the way the story made me feel. I'm definitely not defending the kind of speech that targets and ridicules a group, whether generated or otherwise. I wish I could do a better job of sharing my heart here. As for the comment about the commercial, it was a bit of a tangent on an already-off-topic rant, but I think it describes some of our self-centeredness as a culture. "Oh, if you buy our product you'll feel like spreading the love by..." just not being a jerk? The fact that they ran that commercial means they think it'll resonate with the audience.