3 ms·

As long as DMCA takedowns still exist I will refuse to describe it as "palatable".

eropple 15y ago
That's nice. Meanwhile, amongst people who engage in the production of IP, DMCA takedowns are a reasonably fair, easily challengeable method for dealing with copyright infringement. The anti-circumvention parts of the DMCA are insane, but the takedown stuff isn't bad and benefits the little guy just as much as the big guy.
- burgerbrain 15y ago
  You're insane. DMCA takedowns have such absurd abuse potential that it completely overshadows any perceived "benefit" for "people who engage in the production of IP". To say that "big guys" and "little guys" are on equal footing with takedowns is to be willfully ignorant of reality. This completely ignores the blatant due process issues. Aside: WTF? Everyone produces "IP". These are not a separate class of people.
  - jcrites 15y ago
    The DMCA provides that if you send a counter-claim, the content will be put back up. > To say that "big guys" and "little guys" are on equal footing with takedowns is to be willfully ignorant of reality. I'm not saying it's perfect, and I don't know overall whether I like that it exists or not. But I also don't see how it's as much of a problem as people make it out to be, and I don't see how it only favors the big guys. Let's say you're a small time photographer, and someone steals your pictures and posts them online. A DMCA claim and you can have them taken down. That is in the interest of small folks, who may not be able to hire lawyers or file law suits in whatever jurisdiction is necessary to prevail.
    - burgerbrain 15y ago
      You ignore the reality of the situation.
      - jcrites 15y ago
        Pure opinion, like this, with no explanation or justification, adds nothing to the discussion. I have explained why I believe it helps small and large business equally. If you'd like to have a discussion, I invite to explain why you think what you think, and open yourself to criticism by the community. What you think is the "reality of the situation" requires explanation. If you aren't willing to provide that explanation, this discussion forum may not be a good fit for you.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        "small and large business equally." Who said anything about businesses?
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
      - eropple 15y ago
        The reality that a counter-claim is simple to make (I've done them) and the problem by and large quickly evaporates? That reality? Because you're not entitled to your own.
        burgerbrain 15y ago
        The reality where hosting companies and ISPs cave immediately to the side that has more lawyers. The reality where companies spray DMCA takedowns to intimidate lone hackers they dislike, in situations they would never dare actually take that person to court under. The reality where large companies form backroom deals to "streamline" DMCA takedowns so that dissident voices can be silenced with a keypress, limiting exposure. "That reality? Because you're not entitled to your own." Ok troll. Fuck off.
        15y ago
  - ZachPruckowski 15y ago
    >"Aside: WTF? Everyone produces "IP". These are not a separate class of people." I think he meant "people who produce IP professionally" or "people who earn a living off their IP". Certainly between here and reddit and other sites I've probably produced hundreds of pages of stuff, some of it even borderline insightful, and I'd be pissed if someone stole it, but it doesn't pay my rent or buy my dinner.

That's nice. Meanwhile, amongst people who engage in the production of IP, DMCA takedowns are a reasonably fair, easily challengeable method for dealing with copyright infringement. The anti-circumvention parts of the DMCA are insane, but the takedown stuff isn't bad and benefits the little guy just as much as the big guy.

burgerbrain 15y ago
You're insane. DMCA takedowns have such absurd abuse potential that it completely overshadows any perceived "benefit" for "people who engage in the production of IP". To say that "big guys" and "little guys" are on equal footing with takedowns is to be willfully ignorant of reality. This completely ignores the blatant due process issues. Aside: WTF? Everyone produces "IP". These are not a separate class of people.
- jcrites 15y ago
  The DMCA provides that if you send a counter-claim, the content will be put back up. > To say that "big guys" and "little guys" are on equal footing with takedowns is to be willfully ignorant of reality. I'm not saying it's perfect, and I don't know overall whether I like that it exists or not. But I also don't see how it's as much of a problem as people make it out to be, and I don't see how it only favors the big guys. Let's say you're a small time photographer, and someone steals your pictures and posts them online. A DMCA claim and you can have them taken down. That is in the interest of small folks, who may not be able to hire lawyers or file law suits in whatever jurisdiction is necessary to prevail.
  - burgerbrain 15y ago
    You ignore the reality of the situation.
    - jcrites 15y ago
      Pure opinion, like this, with no explanation or justification, adds nothing to the discussion. I have explained why I believe it helps small and large business equally. If you'd like to have a discussion, I invite to explain why you think what you think, and open yourself to criticism by the community. What you think is the "reality of the situation" requires explanation. If you aren't willing to provide that explanation, this discussion forum may not be a good fit for you.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        "small and large business equally." Who said anything about businesses?
        deleted 15y ago
        [deleted]
    - eropple 15y ago
      The reality that a counter-claim is simple to make (I've done them) and the problem by and large quickly evaporates? That reality? Because you're not entitled to your own.
      - burgerbrain 15y ago
        The reality where hosting companies and ISPs cave immediately to the side that has more lawyers. The reality where companies spray DMCA takedowns to intimidate lone hackers they dislike, in situations they would never dare actually take that person to court under. The reality where large companies form backroom deals to "streamline" DMCA takedowns so that dissident voices can be silenced with a keypress, limiting exposure. "That reality? Because you're not entitled to your own." Ok troll. Fuck off.
      - 15y ago
- ZachPruckowski 15y ago
  >"Aside: WTF? Everyone produces "IP". These are not a separate class of people." I think he meant "people who produce IP professionally" or "people who earn a living off their IP". Certainly between here and reddit and other sites I've probably produced hundreds of pages of stuff, some of it even borderline insightful, and I'd be pissed if someone stole it, but it doesn't pay my rent or buy my dinner.