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There is power in victimhood now. If you can prove you're a victim or prove you're submitting to a certain group you've "victimized" then you are put at the top

There is power in victimhood now. If you can prove you're a victim or prove you're submitting to a certain group you've "victimized" then you are put at the top of the order. You become part of essentially a religious cult and given certain "powers" that you can bash the "sinners" over the head with. I think you're exactly right here, the largest proponents of this stuff tend to be white and left wing (mostly women). In a way I find them extremely racist. To me, they're acting just like OP says. They don't think certain groups are intelligent enough to bring themselves out of squalor and everyone MUST believe like they do; that skin color is an impediment. So, they need the white savior to come rescue them.

LordDragonfang 4y ago
>There is power in victimhood now Anyone who's been to Sunday school can tell you this isn't a new concept, and is at least two millennia old (almost certainly longer, since Judaism has an even longer shared tradition). Christians have continued riding the coattails of their martyrs and "persecution" for centuries after they became the dominant force. If anything, the modern "woke victimhood" is merely the cultural legacy of evangelical Christianity that was (and arguably still is) deeply engrained in US culture.
- DrThunder 4y ago
  I'm confused... are you endorsing acting this way or against it? Kinda seems like you're justifying the current action of "woke" people by discussing past injustices? Isn't the whole idea of the "woke" DEI initiative to fix injustices in our society?
  - kodah 4y ago
    I think they're just saying this occurrence isn't unique and it doesn't look like they approve of it. Many of us identify with our own struggles in deep ways. If you create an opportunity for people to organize around those struggles then people will, because as was said, there is power there. That power is in representation. The problem is generally in the silo'ing of representation. This is, imo, what things like intersectionality begin to address. We have an entire country now that was founded based on legitimate religious persecution that devolved in the ~200 years since it's founding to go on to oppress others. We can and should do better.
    - DrThunder 4y ago
      Ok, and my point is that doing the exact same thing as those people did in the past isn't doing better. You don't fix oppression by moving that oppression to a new group. Simply pointing out that victimhood has always existed serves no purpose at all in response to my original comment. "This is, imo, what things like intersectionality begin to address." How? All intersectionality does is create a competition for the most oppressed. You will never be enough of a victim. Nothing good comes of a society that focuses specifically on how oppressed they are and vies for the most oppressed group or person. "We have an entire country now that was founded based on legitimate religious persecution" Name a country where this hasn't happened. There are many where this is still happening and to a further extent than anything in the US. Ironically, you're right in weird roundabout way that I do not think you fully comprehend. EVERYONE has been a victim of some sort so it's irrelevant and we shouldn't spend one iota more of our short lives trying to discern who the highest victims of our society are. What a waste and it does nothing to improve the supposed oppressed.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - supercheetah 4y ago
        Your description of intersectionality is the exact opposite of what it is. It's entire purpose is to show everyone that playing the operation Olympics is a pointless game that no one wins. It's too show that everyone's struggles don't fit into neat little boxes that define them, and show that social problems are multidimensional that don't have simple solutions, and shows that a lot of DEI initiatives are superficial, and likely won't make any real difference.
        DrThunder 4y ago
        "everyone that playing the operation Olympics is a pointless game that no one wins" Except reality has proven you wrong. We've never lived in a time where people are more well fed, have more personal belongings, longer life spans etc. It is in fact, objectively, not a pointless game.
- foolswisdom 4y ago
  Clarification please - where do you find "power in victimhood" in Judaism 2000+ years ago?
  - Tycho 4y ago
    The argument is probably that Judaism was the first religion to introduce concern for the victim into its moral teachings, and therefore inevitably there would be people hijacking that to differentiate themselves, boost their status through claims to victimhood.
    - raxxorraxor 4y ago
      I do think DEI has many religious and dogmatic believes that mirror other religions. It is pretty weak on the absolution part though. That is what a church sells, DEI sells an inquisition, making it even worse in some parts. It is a bit weird overall. It decries conservatism, but is very heavy on fundamentalism. It is far more conservative than other groups it indicts with sexism/racism. And mostly these accusation are also false.
- rayiner 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - tptacek 4y ago
    Wait, what is "neo-Marxism"? When he's not busy "waging moral war on Disney", Rufo is full of weird stuff like this --- "neo-Marxism" is a turn of phrase most famous for its use in Jordan Peterson's nonsensical coinage "postmodern neo-Marxism". Marxism is distinguished as an ideology by totalizing class consciousness. That's the opposite of wokeness, which ratifies identity politics. In fact, "wokeness" is a fault line in modern leftist Twitter thinking, between the populist "dirtbag left" that eschews DEI-speak and the university left. Just how much work is the word "neo" doing in that name? Most "DEI wokesters" are the farthest thing from Marxists. They're jealous and enthusiastic beneficiaries of the mortgage interest tax deduction. "Collapsed mainline Protestantism"? Explain! Does being a Catholic draw me closer to or further away from "wokeism"? Because I have things to say about the intersection of DEI culture and Catholicism.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      > Marxism is distinguished as an ideology by totalizing class consciousness. That's the opposite of wokeness, which ratifies identity politics. It's an ideology that replaces Marxism's "totalizing class consciousness" with a "totalizing race consciousness." > Just how much work is the word "neo" doing in that name? A lot, and the "Marxism" is doing very little. It's a clumsy construction. But the meaning is clear in context. > "Collapsed mainline Protestantism"? Explain! It’s a religious revival, but without Jesus. They’re descendants of Puritans who don’t believe the theology anymore, but have the same religious zeal, sense of moral universalism, and faith that America's institutions belong to them. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbxQqKXUIk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbxQqKXUIk (warning: offensive period language). I’ve had several experiences with woke whites where, when I pointed out that the minorities they purport to speak for disagreed with them about this or that, they responded with the same sentiment as Matt Damon in the final line of that clip. I don’t know anything about Catholicism. I will say that there’s something about America where every religion takes on elements of Protestantism—especially the reliance on the conscious of lay people rather than doctrines announced by learned religious authorities.
dkn775 4y ago
Anyone who has worked in government in a high crime city is aware of this. So many nonprofits bank off crime and destruction of the black community by “studying”, “studying some more”, “evaluating the study”, “working with stakeholders”, “drafting a strategic plan” etc. it’s actually an easy way for white people that have mediocre prospects to advance. It’s a low rigor environment where buzzwords mean a lot and underachievers can profit off of black people
mikrotikker 4y ago
DEI is Latin for God. Is that a mistake? Surely it is. I've heard this called the racism of low expectations. It's disgusting.

LordDragonfang 4y ago

>There is power in victimhood now Anyone who's been to Sunday school can tell you this isn't a new concept, and is at least two millennia old (almost certainly longer, since Judaism has an even longer shared tradition). Christians have continued riding the coattails of their martyrs and "persecution" for centuries after they became the dominant force. If anything, the modern "woke victimhood" is merely the cultural legacy of evangelical Christianity that was (and arguably still is) deeply engrained in US culture.

DrThunder 4y ago
I'm confused... are you endorsing acting this way or against it? Kinda seems like you're justifying the current action of "woke" people by discussing past injustices? Isn't the whole idea of the "woke" DEI initiative to fix injustices in our society?
- kodah 4y ago
  I think they're just saying this occurrence isn't unique and it doesn't look like they approve of it. Many of us identify with our own struggles in deep ways. If you create an opportunity for people to organize around those struggles then people will, because as was said, there is power there. That power is in representation. The problem is generally in the silo'ing of representation. This is, imo, what things like intersectionality begin to address. We have an entire country now that was founded based on legitimate religious persecution that devolved in the ~200 years since it's founding to go on to oppress others. We can and should do better.
  - DrThunder 4y ago
    Ok, and my point is that doing the exact same thing as those people did in the past isn't doing better. You don't fix oppression by moving that oppression to a new group. Simply pointing out that victimhood has always existed serves no purpose at all in response to my original comment. "This is, imo, what things like intersectionality begin to address." How? All intersectionality does is create a competition for the most oppressed. You will never be enough of a victim. Nothing good comes of a society that focuses specifically on how oppressed they are and vies for the most oppressed group or person. "We have an entire country now that was founded based on legitimate religious persecution" Name a country where this hasn't happened. There are many where this is still happening and to a further extent than anything in the US. Ironically, you're right in weird roundabout way that I do not think you fully comprehend. EVERYONE has been a victim of some sort so it's irrelevant and we shouldn't spend one iota more of our short lives trying to discern who the highest victims of our society are. What a waste and it does nothing to improve the supposed oppressed.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - supercheetah 4y ago
      Your description of intersectionality is the exact opposite of what it is. It's entire purpose is to show everyone that playing the operation Olympics is a pointless game that no one wins. It's too show that everyone's struggles don't fit into neat little boxes that define them, and show that social problems are multidimensional that don't have simple solutions, and shows that a lot of DEI initiatives are superficial, and likely won't make any real difference.
      - DrThunder 4y ago
        "everyone that playing the operation Olympics is a pointless game that no one wins" Except reality has proven you wrong. We've never lived in a time where people are more well fed, have more personal belongings, longer life spans etc. It is in fact, objectively, not a pointless game.
foolswisdom 4y ago
Clarification please - where do you find "power in victimhood" in Judaism 2000+ years ago?
- Tycho 4y ago
  The argument is probably that Judaism was the first religion to introduce concern for the victim into its moral teachings, and therefore inevitably there would be people hijacking that to differentiate themselves, boost their status through claims to victimhood.
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    I do think DEI has many religious and dogmatic believes that mirror other religions. It is pretty weak on the absolution part though. That is what a church sells, DEI sells an inquisition, making it even worse in some parts. It is a bit weird overall. It decries conservatism, but is very heavy on fundamentalism. It is far more conservative than other groups it indicts with sexism/racism. And mostly these accusation are also false.
rayiner 4y ago
[flagged]
- tptacek 4y ago
  Wait, what is "neo-Marxism"? When he's not busy "waging moral war on Disney", Rufo is full of weird stuff like this --- "neo-Marxism" is a turn of phrase most famous for its use in Jordan Peterson's nonsensical coinage "postmodern neo-Marxism". Marxism is distinguished as an ideology by totalizing class consciousness. That's the opposite of wokeness, which ratifies identity politics. In fact, "wokeness" is a fault line in modern leftist Twitter thinking, between the populist "dirtbag left" that eschews DEI-speak and the university left. Just how much work is the word "neo" doing in that name? Most "DEI wokesters" are the farthest thing from Marxists. They're jealous and enthusiastic beneficiaries of the mortgage interest tax deduction. "Collapsed mainline Protestantism"? Explain! Does being a Catholic draw me closer to or further away from "wokeism"? Because I have things to say about the intersection of DEI culture and Catholicism.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    > Marxism is distinguished as an ideology by totalizing class consciousness. That's the opposite of wokeness, which ratifies identity politics. It's an ideology that replaces Marxism's "totalizing class consciousness" with a "totalizing race consciousness." > Just how much work is the word "neo" doing in that name? A lot, and the "Marxism" is doing very little. It's a clumsy construction. But the meaning is clear in context. > "Collapsed mainline Protestantism"? Explain! It’s a religious revival, but without Jesus. They’re descendants of Puritans who don’t believe the theology anymore, but have the same religious zeal, sense of moral universalism, and faith that America's institutions belong to them. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbxQqKXUIk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbxQqKXUIk (warning: offensive period language). I’ve had several experiences with woke whites where, when I pointed out that the minorities they purport to speak for disagreed with them about this or that, they responded with the same sentiment as Matt Damon in the final line of that clip. I don’t know anything about Catholicism. I will say that there’s something about America where every religion takes on elements of Protestantism—especially the reliance on the conscious of lay people rather than doctrines announced by learned religious authorities.

dkn775 4y ago

Anyone who has worked in government in a high crime city is aware of this. So many nonprofits bank off crime and destruction of the black community by “studying”, “studying some more”, “evaluating the study”, “working with stakeholders”, “drafting a strategic plan” etc. it’s actually an easy way for white people that have mediocre prospects to advance. It’s a low rigor environment where buzzwords mean a lot and underachievers can profit off of black people

mikrotikker 4y ago

DEI is Latin for God. Is that a mistake? Surely it is. I've heard this called the racism of low expectations. It's disgusting.