5 ms·

ADHD is commonly thought of as a disorder of attention, but it also has a nexus of dysfunction in mood regulation. I am simplifying, but people with ADHD don’t

by ttul 4y ago

ADHD is commonly thought of as a disorder of attention, but it also has a nexus of dysfunction in mood regulation. I am simplifying, but people with ADHD don’t generate enough dopamine to stimulate the circuits that regulate emotion. Most people with ADHD therefore experience heightened emotional responses to negative stimuli. This leads to all sorts of problems with relationships and work. Procrastination is the art of avoiding the emotional pain that happens when you think about working on something you find distasteful or boring. ADHD presents two problems in relation to procrastination: first, ADHD gives you a lifetime of training in the pain of focusing on difficult or boring work. And second, when you experience the feeling that something will be difficult or boring, you don’t properly regulate that feeling. It becomes overwhelming.

AB1908 4y ago
> but people with ADHD don’t generate enough dopamine to stimulate the circuits that regulate emotion. Most people with ADHD therefore experience heightened emotional responses to negative stimuli. This leads to all sorts of problems with relationships and work. Would you have a citation for this?
- coldtea 4y ago
  It might not be on the DSM yet (and the DSM itself isn't some holy gospel) but it can be found very widely reported: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-shrink-tank/202004/adhd-and-emotions-what-the-dsm-5-doesnt-tell-us https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-shrink-tank/2020...
- mxmilkiib 4y ago
  Fwiw https://www.additudemag.com/tag/emotional-dysregulation/ https://www.additudemag.com/tag/emotional-dysregulation/
- ttul 4y ago
  https://www.adhdevidence.org/ics#Emotional https://www.adhdevidence.org/ics#Emotional 103. A study of over 8600 youths from the U.S. National Health Interview Survey found that those with ADHD were four times as likely to have a high level of emotional and conduct problems and three times as likely to have a high level of peer problems. It also found that they were eight to ten times as likely to manifest a high level of impairment with home life, friendships, classroom learning, and leisure activities (Strine et al., 2006). 104. A meta-analysis of 22 studies with over 21,000 participants found that youths with ADHD were strongly impaired in the ability to modulate their reactivity to novel or stressful events (Graziano and Garcia, 2016). Another meta-analysis, combining twelve studies with over 1900 participants, found that adults with ADHD had very elevated levels of emotional dysregulation compared with normally developing controls (Beheshti et al., 2020). 105. A meta-analysis found that children with ADHD had medium-to-large impairments in socializing with peers as measured by rejection/likability, popularity, and friendships (61 studies, over 24,000 children). They also had moderate impairments in social skills such as sharing, cooperating, turn-taking, reciprocity (68 studies, over 148,000 children), and social-information processing, such as recognizing social cues, identifying problems, generating solutions, and avoiding biases (23 studies, over 3750 children) (Ros and Graziano, 2018). 106. A study of over 53,000 U.S. children from the National Survey of Children’s Health found that those with ADHD were 2.4 times as likely to engage in bullying (Montes and Halterman, 2007). A more recent study of some 64,000 children using the same database confirmed this finding, reporting that those with ADHD were 2.8 times more likely to engage in bullying (Benedict et al., 2015).
  - yosame 4y ago
    There's definitely a decent body of evidence to suggest ADHD is associated with emotional dysregulation, but I'd be surprised if that explanation turned out to correct. ADHD isn't simply a lack of dopamine, but a dysfunction in dopamine (and noradrenaline) regulation. It can involve too much dopamine (like with hyperfocus), and not enough dopamine in different loci. This isn't even mentioning the non-dopamine/noradrenaline understandings of the pathophysiology that are still arising with further study.
gopalv 4y ago
> Procrastination is the art of avoiding the emotional pain that happens when you think about working on something you find distasteful or boring There's a whole other class of procrastination that sits in the ADHD spectrum, which is because the "Hyperfocus time" is just a massive bump in your abilities and you want to use that time to do the most important things in your life. I've got my tax documents right in front of me behind this screen. I'm just waiting for that dip into hyperfocus flow to pick it up and just do it in one go, instead of accidentally ending up wasting that focus on something mundane. You literally save up your TODO list, because you know there'll be a clearing of the fog and you can go a million miles an hour through your tasks. I don't know if you experience procrastination the same way, but the version I experience is best called "defeatist perfectionist", a bit of it is the upbringing of "don't start if you can't finish it" from food on a plate to art. Picking up a jigsaw puzzle is weighing my energies to get through it, before I even start. Daily life feels like that swim scene from Gattaca. I've not got enough of a problem to go get diagnosed or medicated, but I've had to find my own way to program in my productivity triggers and they work for me in almost all scenarios. And the only real struggle I have to deal with is people in my life telling me "That's not the way to do it" for something which works for me, to just accept the feedback and not react to it personally.
- tene 4y ago
  > Daily life feels like that swim scene from Gattaca. > I've not got enough of a problem to go get diagnosed or medicated. Hmm...
  - ttul 4y ago
    To each their own. The DSM criteria require that the impairments be significant, ergo if you don’t think they are, you don’t have ADHD.
    - canadianfella 4y ago
      [dead]
    - cwsx 4y ago
rednerrus 4y ago
I have another hypothesis that one of the issues with ADHD and mood regulation is that the "clock" in our brains are broken. This leaves us with an inability to understand that "episodes" have beginning, middles, and ends. While the episode is happening we tend to believe that it will never end. We can't see the end. This is part of what keeps us frozen. Why would we want to enter a task that will continue to feel overwhelming indefinitely. This is why pomodoro and other strategies that clearly define the end are so effective. It allows us to offboard the clock management part of it that is so difficult. It's clear when the end is. I think this is actually a skill that we can learn on our own. I haven't fully fleshed this part out yet.
- 8ytecoder 4y ago
  ADHD is an issue with underdeveloped executive functions. They can lead to time blindness, emotional disregulation and low functional memory. Basically, you start something without actually planning or having a good grasp of how long it would take, then start doing and get distracted by even the tiniest of distractions and forgetting where you were before the distraction. Rinse and repeat, every single day you develop other coping mechanisms to avoid the repeated failure.
- loopdoend 4y ago
  When thinking about problems I have to constantly tell myself, don't worry, it isn't infinite... you can get through it and get it done. I also have a tendency to get mired in the details and need to frequently zoom out to remind myself of the big picture and goals I'm working towards.
- ycombinete 4y ago
  I've definitely noticed this! All states feel indefinite. This is great for pleasurable stuff, but a nightmare for unpleasant tasks.
- yosame 4y ago
  Some researchers actually believe ADHD is a circadian rhythm disorder [1], so there might be some merit in this. [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12402-018-0271-z https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12402-018-0271-z

by ttul 4y ago

AB1908 4y ago

> but people with ADHD don’t generate enough dopamine to stimulate the circuits that regulate emotion. Most people with ADHD therefore experience heightened emotional responses to negative stimuli. This leads to all sorts of problems with relationships and work. Would you have a citation for this?

coldtea 4y ago
It might not be on the DSM yet (and the DSM itself isn't some holy gospel) but it can be found very widely reported: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-shrink-tank/202004/adhd-and-emotions-what-the-dsm-5-doesnt-tell-us https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-shrink-tank/2020...
mxmilkiib 4y ago
Fwiw https://www.additudemag.com/tag/emotional-dysregulation/ https://www.additudemag.com/tag/emotional-dysregulation/
ttul 4y ago
https://www.adhdevidence.org/ics#Emotional https://www.adhdevidence.org/ics#Emotional 103. A study of over 8600 youths from the U.S. National Health Interview Survey found that those with ADHD were four times as likely to have a high level of emotional and conduct problems and three times as likely to have a high level of peer problems. It also found that they were eight to ten times as likely to manifest a high level of impairment with home life, friendships, classroom learning, and leisure activities (Strine et al., 2006). 104. A meta-analysis of 22 studies with over 21,000 participants found that youths with ADHD were strongly impaired in the ability to modulate their reactivity to novel or stressful events (Graziano and Garcia, 2016). Another meta-analysis, combining twelve studies with over 1900 participants, found that adults with ADHD had very elevated levels of emotional dysregulation compared with normally developing controls (Beheshti et al., 2020). 105. A meta-analysis found that children with ADHD had medium-to-large impairments in socializing with peers as measured by rejection/likability, popularity, and friendships (61 studies, over 24,000 children). They also had moderate impairments in social skills such as sharing, cooperating, turn-taking, reciprocity (68 studies, over 148,000 children), and social-information processing, such as recognizing social cues, identifying problems, generating solutions, and avoiding biases (23 studies, over 3750 children) (Ros and Graziano, 2018). 106. A study of over 53,000 U.S. children from the National Survey of Children’s Health found that those with ADHD were 2.4 times as likely to engage in bullying (Montes and Halterman, 2007). A more recent study of some 64,000 children using the same database confirmed this finding, reporting that those with ADHD were 2.8 times more likely to engage in bullying (Benedict et al., 2015).
- yosame 4y ago
  There's definitely a decent body of evidence to suggest ADHD is associated with emotional dysregulation, but I'd be surprised if that explanation turned out to correct. ADHD isn't simply a lack of dopamine, but a dysfunction in dopamine (and noradrenaline) regulation. It can involve too much dopamine (like with hyperfocus), and not enough dopamine in different loci. This isn't even mentioning the non-dopamine/noradrenaline understandings of the pathophysiology that are still arising with further study.

gopalv 4y ago

> Procrastination is the art of avoiding the emotional pain that happens when you think about working on something you find distasteful or boring There's a whole other class of procrastination that sits in the ADHD spectrum, which is because the "Hyperfocus time" is just a massive bump in your abilities and you want to use that time to do the most important things in your life. I've got my tax documents right in front of me behind this screen. I'm just waiting for that dip into hyperfocus flow to pick it up and just do it in one go, instead of accidentally ending up wasting that focus on something mundane. You literally save up your TODO list, because you know there'll be a clearing of the fog and you can go a million miles an hour through your tasks. I don't know if you experience procrastination the same way, but the version I experience is best called "defeatist perfectionist", a bit of it is the upbringing of "don't start if you can't finish it" from food on a plate to art. Picking up a jigsaw puzzle is weighing my energies to get through it, before I even start. Daily life feels like that swim scene from Gattaca. I've not got enough of a problem to go get diagnosed or medicated, but I've had to find my own way to program in my productivity triggers and they work for me in almost all scenarios. And the only real struggle I have to deal with is people in my life telling me "That's not the way to do it" for something which works for me, to just accept the feedback and not react to it personally.

tene 4y ago
> Daily life feels like that swim scene from Gattaca. > I've not got enough of a problem to go get diagnosed or medicated. Hmm...
- ttul 4y ago
  To each their own. The DSM criteria require that the impairments be significant, ergo if you don’t think they are, you don’t have ADHD.
  - canadianfella 4y ago
    [dead]
  - cwsx 4y ago

rednerrus 4y ago

I have another hypothesis that one of the issues with ADHD and mood regulation is that the "clock" in our brains are broken. This leaves us with an inability to understand that "episodes" have beginning, middles, and ends. While the episode is happening we tend to believe that it will never end. We can't see the end. This is part of what keeps us frozen. Why would we want to enter a task that will continue to feel overwhelming indefinitely. This is why pomodoro and other strategies that clearly define the end are so effective. It allows us to offboard the clock management part of it that is so difficult. It's clear when the end is. I think this is actually a skill that we can learn on our own. I haven't fully fleshed this part out yet.

8ytecoder 4y ago
ADHD is an issue with underdeveloped executive functions. They can lead to time blindness, emotional disregulation and low functional memory. Basically, you start something without actually planning or having a good grasp of how long it would take, then start doing and get distracted by even the tiniest of distractions and forgetting where you were before the distraction. Rinse and repeat, every single day you develop other coping mechanisms to avoid the repeated failure.
loopdoend 4y ago
When thinking about problems I have to constantly tell myself, don't worry, it isn't infinite... you can get through it and get it done. I also have a tendency to get mired in the details and need to frequently zoom out to remind myself of the big picture and goals I'm working towards.
ycombinete 4y ago
I've definitely noticed this! All states feel indefinite. This is great for pleasurable stuff, but a nightmare for unpleasant tasks.
yosame 4y ago
Some researchers actually believe ADHD is a circadian rhythm disorder [1], so there might be some merit in this. [1] https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12402-018-0271-z https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12402-018-0271-z