6 ms·

As many people here noticed, the bit has actually nothing to do with transphobia, or gay, but it's about a comedian bombing a show with horrible jokes. What's

by bsaul 4y ago

As many people here noticed, the bit has actually nothing to do with transphobia, or gay, but it's about a comedian bombing a show with horrible jokes. What's interesting in this case, is that there can be no "background check". Or "this guy has actually had weird quotes in the past, he's very suspicious". Or "he has republican friends"... All the regular strategy activist use to demolish a public figure over a pretext. This time it's just pure AI, and as such pure stupidity from the censor.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
CharlesW 4y ago
> This time it's just pure AI, and as such pure stupidity from the censor. The developer confirmed that inappropriate content was generated when they switched language models, so the moderation process worked fine.
- Levitz 4y ago
  I think the point being made is that jokes don't imply hatred per se. If I say "Spanish people are lazy fucks" that sounds offensive and might be considered racist, but I myself am Spanish and that context changes its meaning. We generally strive away from racist jokes because as a society we are concerned that we are furthering racist ideologies otherwise. For a more explicit example, if a person says "I'm tired of them fucking n-words" it matters a great deal, socially, if that person is black or white. But this is an AI. It has biases, sure, but no past experience and no beliefs. If an AI says that same phrase, what is the meaning behind that? More succinctly, can an AI say the n-word? Why?
  - sassyonsunday 4y ago
    I'm transgender. I transitioned 17 years ago. Sometimes I call myself a t-word or tranma (because I transitioned a long time ago I'm only in my early 30's so I guess I have a few years before I'm a literal granny :'[). Should I get canceled because I said the t-word in a gay bar with my besties or when I joke around with my husband and say things like "this is what you get for marrying a t-word"? No. But it's also used as a slur against people in real life by haters who have no business saying it and I don't want them pointing at me saying it and think that they have a right to because I did. So I don't use it outside of private company. I have met trans women, especially those who came out of the gay community like me, who use the t-word with vicious intent because of hate they have for themselves and others. They're disgusted with being trans and they're disgusted by other trans people and they throw the slur the same way a non-trans person would and in doing so give moral cover to non-trans people who hate us. "See they even hate each other and they use that word the same as we do!" If you call these self-haters out they'll claim it's fine for them to behave the way they do because they're trans too, but, no.... The reason you shouldn't use slurs has nothing to do with the slur itself, it's about the impact of it and the impact doesn't change just because you're trans yourself. So anyway, imo, normalizing the use of slurs by publicly broadcasting them is a bad idea in general outside of very specific contexts because slurs are not just words, they are symbols for an entire series of related negative stereotypes so when we normalize those words we also normalize the ideas associated with them. AI doesn't get an n-word pass. /rant
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      I've never heard tranma before and it's fantastic! Thanks for articulating this; it's helpful. My only question is: words that are labels don't create hatred, although they might signify it. Will stopping words being used do anything to reduce any hate people feel and/or increase understanding, and conversely will allowing it add any hate to people and/or decrease understanding?
      - sassyonsunday 4y ago
        Stopping the words won't stop hate but it can deescalate things and help communication take place. When someone calls me a t-word they're signaling an aggressively negative stance toward me right out of the gate. It raises the tension too high to be able to have meaningful conversation. We all know intuitively that there are things that should be left unsaid in life so that we can get along with others.... Slurs belong to that class of things. It's not theoretical for me. My FIL doesn't know I'm trans and he loves Fox News and called some person getting covered by Fox a t-word in a really hateful way about two years ago and it's made me feel less comfortable around him. He could have just said "I don't know about this trans stuff" which I get totally but by jumping to a slur he put a barrier up. I've begged my husband to "out" me to his family at some point ... imagine how that would go now. Even assuming he can overcome the fact that his DIL who he's known for the better part of a decade is actually some sort of demon creature from a Tucker Carlson segment, don't you think he's going to think back on all the nasty stuff he said and feel awkward as heck??? Even if he moved on from it, I could never forget or trust him like I would have if he'd only revealed a more measured mistrust of trans people instead of jumping straight to calling us the most hateful thing he could think of. It would be the same with a stranger. If you call me a slur or use the slur around me without knowing that I AM ONE OF THOSE "SLUR WORDS" it would prevent me from being able to form a relationship with you on equal footing and would make me want to hide who I am from you which just amplifies the level of misunderstanding in the world. When lots of people are throwing slurs and stuff around in general that feeling of alienation becomes a suffocating amorphous cloud that covers you up and makes you want to retreat from society. I guess that's a feature and not a bug for the people using the slurs. They want us to stay in the gay bars and away from them and their kind but.... that's not healthy. We should all be able to participate in public life on as near to equal footing as possible. Some people might say it's my fault because I take slurs personally but... I'm just human here. I don't wanna spend my life placating people who use slurs to describe me. I'll bet it's the same for members of other groups who have slurs that people use against them. Once somebody uses those slurs against you it's hard to build a bridge with them which is sad.
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    I don't think these debates are about meaning or intention any more. The closest I can get to succinctly is they behave more like group-based politeness laws.
    - bsaul 4y ago
      except it would be perfectly acceptable for a comedian on stage to say fuck or cunt, provided the context makes it funny.
      - robertlagrant 4y ago
        Yes, because we've had a few decades of those words no longer being considered impolite in all situations.
yenwodyah 4y ago
It’s not “about” anything, it’s just nonsense generated by a computer program. Any meaning you find in it is pareidolia.
fullshark 4y ago
This story has an even better result than claiming a scalp for these guys, now the activists get to shout from the rooftops about how important it is these companies hire them to develop "fair and unbiased" AI models. This is a way for them to acquire greater control on information, as they can control the generative models that produce information.
- smcl 4y ago
  People will, rightly, use this to urge caution against naively throwing AI at a problem. The non-specific activists demanding to be hired in some non-specific roles is a thing you have invented to get mad at.
fallingknife 4y ago
It's actually less stupid without the whole "background check." Still stupid, but at least consistent in its application.

by bsaul 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

CharlesW 4y ago

> This time it's just pure AI, and as such pure stupidity from the censor. The developer confirmed that inappropriate content was generated when they switched language models, so the moderation process worked fine.

Levitz 4y ago
I think the point being made is that jokes don't imply hatred per se. If I say "Spanish people are lazy fucks" that sounds offensive and might be considered racist, but I myself am Spanish and that context changes its meaning. We generally strive away from racist jokes because as a society we are concerned that we are furthering racist ideologies otherwise. For a more explicit example, if a person says "I'm tired of them fucking n-words" it matters a great deal, socially, if that person is black or white. But this is an AI. It has biases, sure, but no past experience and no beliefs. If an AI says that same phrase, what is the meaning behind that? More succinctly, can an AI say the n-word? Why?
- sassyonsunday 4y ago
  I'm transgender. I transitioned 17 years ago. Sometimes I call myself a t-word or tranma (because I transitioned a long time ago I'm only in my early 30's so I guess I have a few years before I'm a literal granny :'[). Should I get canceled because I said the t-word in a gay bar with my besties or when I joke around with my husband and say things like "this is what you get for marrying a t-word"? No. But it's also used as a slur against people in real life by haters who have no business saying it and I don't want them pointing at me saying it and think that they have a right to because I did. So I don't use it outside of private company. I have met trans women, especially those who came out of the gay community like me, who use the t-word with vicious intent because of hate they have for themselves and others. They're disgusted with being trans and they're disgusted by other trans people and they throw the slur the same way a non-trans person would and in doing so give moral cover to non-trans people who hate us. "See they even hate each other and they use that word the same as we do!" If you call these self-haters out they'll claim it's fine for them to behave the way they do because they're trans too, but, no.... The reason you shouldn't use slurs has nothing to do with the slur itself, it's about the impact of it and the impact doesn't change just because you're trans yourself. So anyway, imo, normalizing the use of slurs by publicly broadcasting them is a bad idea in general outside of very specific contexts because slurs are not just words, they are symbols for an entire series of related negative stereotypes so when we normalize those words we also normalize the ideas associated with them. AI doesn't get an n-word pass. /rant
  - robertlagrant 4y ago
    I've never heard tranma before and it's fantastic! Thanks for articulating this; it's helpful. My only question is: words that are labels don't create hatred, although they might signify it. Will stopping words being used do anything to reduce any hate people feel and/or increase understanding, and conversely will allowing it add any hate to people and/or decrease understanding?
    - sassyonsunday 4y ago
      Stopping the words won't stop hate but it can deescalate things and help communication take place. When someone calls me a t-word they're signaling an aggressively negative stance toward me right out of the gate. It raises the tension too high to be able to have meaningful conversation. We all know intuitively that there are things that should be left unsaid in life so that we can get along with others.... Slurs belong to that class of things. It's not theoretical for me. My FIL doesn't know I'm trans and he loves Fox News and called some person getting covered by Fox a t-word in a really hateful way about two years ago and it's made me feel less comfortable around him. He could have just said "I don't know about this trans stuff" which I get totally but by jumping to a slur he put a barrier up. I've begged my husband to "out" me to his family at some point ... imagine how that would go now. Even assuming he can overcome the fact that his DIL who he's known for the better part of a decade is actually some sort of demon creature from a Tucker Carlson segment, don't you think he's going to think back on all the nasty stuff he said and feel awkward as heck??? Even if he moved on from it, I could never forget or trust him like I would have if he'd only revealed a more measured mistrust of trans people instead of jumping straight to calling us the most hateful thing he could think of. It would be the same with a stranger. If you call me a slur or use the slur around me without knowing that I AM ONE OF THOSE "SLUR WORDS" it would prevent me from being able to form a relationship with you on equal footing and would make me want to hide who I am from you which just amplifies the level of misunderstanding in the world. When lots of people are throwing slurs and stuff around in general that feeling of alienation becomes a suffocating amorphous cloud that covers you up and makes you want to retreat from society. I guess that's a feature and not a bug for the people using the slurs. They want us to stay in the gay bars and away from them and their kind but.... that's not healthy. We should all be able to participate in public life on as near to equal footing as possible. Some people might say it's my fault because I take slurs personally but... I'm just human here. I don't wanna spend my life placating people who use slurs to describe me. I'll bet it's the same for members of other groups who have slurs that people use against them. Once somebody uses those slurs against you it's hard to build a bridge with them which is sad.
- robertlagrant 4y ago
  I don't think these debates are about meaning or intention any more. The closest I can get to succinctly is they behave more like group-based politeness laws.
  - bsaul 4y ago
    except it would be perfectly acceptable for a comedian on stage to say fuck or cunt, provided the context makes it funny.
    - robertlagrant 4y ago
      Yes, because we've had a few decades of those words no longer being considered impolite in all situations.

yenwodyah 4y ago

It’s not “about” anything, it’s just nonsense generated by a computer program. Any meaning you find in it is pareidolia.

fullshark 4y ago

This story has an even better result than claiming a scalp for these guys, now the activists get to shout from the rooftops about how important it is these companies hire them to develop "fair and unbiased" AI models. This is a way for them to acquire greater control on information, as they can control the generative models that produce information.

smcl 4y ago
People will, rightly, use this to urge caution against naively throwing AI at a problem. The non-specific activists demanding to be hired in some non-specific roles is a thing you have invented to get mad at.

fallingknife 4y ago

It's actually less stupid without the whole "background check." Still stupid, but at least consistent in its application.