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While I believe I understand your point, to me it pretends there is no link between culture that supports and understands diversity in general or among physical

While I believe I understand your point, to me it pretends there is no link between culture that supports and understands diversity in general or among physical traits, ideologies, etc — and one the embraces diversity of ideas. Issues you raise is more about how compliance is not the same thing as diligence, which is only observable if culture fails to be diligent or never intended to be so.

snapplebobapple 4y ago
I think the disagreement and/or misunderstanding is around the incorrect assumption that diversity policies are promoting diverse ideas via increasing hiring of different cultures rather than promoting diversity of outward appearance while enforcing a mono-culture via intolerance of ideas that clash with a broad narrative that tends to be pushed by the people pushing these policies (i.e the people who read and support the LA times writing an article about how Larry Elder is the black face of white supremacy). I also personally think it's weird to talk about a culture failing or not, it's the individual that matters as far as competency is concerned, which certainly makes it the relevant data point for a business.
- O__________O 4y ago
  Policies by definition are a compliance mechanism, they are not means of breeding true diligence. Said another way, there are no laws for the crimes that are never committed. At the point policies are reflection of diligence, it would be clearly be false to claim skills gained implementing culture of diligence in some aspects of diversity would not be transferable to another domain of diligence in diversity; in fact, referenced this via “respect for diversity in nature” when I listed benefits of diversity. Benefits are unrelated to implementation flaws, edge cases, etc.
  - snapplebobapple 4y ago
    Rereading your previous response and this one, I missed a key point. I don't pretend there is "...no link between culture that supports [removed because this part isn't true about current people driving diversity pushes] among physical traits,[again removed for untruth] etc — and one the embraces diversity of ideas." I actively acknowledge there is a link and it is resoundingly in the negative direction because the people currently pushing diversity are overwhelmingly doing it for ideological reasons using extremely inappropriate tools like critical theory rather than doing it for great reasons like increasing productivity by fully utilizing previously underutilized labor. They are not looking for diversity of ideas, they are actively pushing for compliance with their world view and crushing dissent. I am not sure where you are trying to go with your commentary on diligence vs compliance, it doesn't seem particularly relevant and is concerningly Orwellian in that you seem to be saying people need to internalize hiring based on immutable characteristics to ensure those characteristics are represented rather than on competency. I don't want anyone to internalize any of that. I want diversity policy to be a bit of a pain in the ass that forces potentially biased people to try and choose the best they can from a severely underrepresented subset and then watch that choice do well and therefore help them re-calibrate their internal model to not miss out on quality hires outside their experience set. The goal should never be to diligently hire diversity, the goal should always be to help hiring managers trying to do their best improve.
    - O__________O 4y ago
      Compliance is a checklist, diligence is an intent based on an action objective by a skill practitioner; common example being “Security by compliance” - which is taken as a negative practice and one that’s done to meet the letter of the objectives, not the spirit of them, if such a spirit is definable. And yes, much like technology, it’s up to people to insure abuse doesn’t happen. Much likely I said before, there’s reason diversity is an issue, clear examples of abuse from minor to horrific, and very unlikely there’s an optimal solution. That said, I feel exactly confident in saying that currently that inequality, diversity, etc — are still major cultural issues in almost any region in the world; in some countries, inhospitable towards foreign cultures is the norm, not the exception.

snapplebobapple 4y ago

I think the disagreement and/or misunderstanding is around the incorrect assumption that diversity policies are promoting diverse ideas via increasing hiring of different cultures rather than promoting diversity of outward appearance while enforcing a mono-culture via intolerance of ideas that clash with a broad narrative that tends to be pushed by the people pushing these policies (i.e the people who read and support the LA times writing an article about how Larry Elder is the black face of white supremacy). I also personally think it's weird to talk about a culture failing or not, it's the individual that matters as far as competency is concerned, which certainly makes it the relevant data point for a business.

O__________O 4y ago
Policies by definition are a compliance mechanism, they are not means of breeding true diligence. Said another way, there are no laws for the crimes that are never committed. At the point policies are reflection of diligence, it would be clearly be false to claim skills gained implementing culture of diligence in some aspects of diversity would not be transferable to another domain of diligence in diversity; in fact, referenced this via “respect for diversity in nature” when I listed benefits of diversity. Benefits are unrelated to implementation flaws, edge cases, etc.
- snapplebobapple 4y ago
  Rereading your previous response and this one, I missed a key point. I don't pretend there is "...no link between culture that supports [removed because this part isn't true about current people driving diversity pushes] among physical traits,[again removed for untruth] etc — and one the embraces diversity of ideas." I actively acknowledge there is a link and it is resoundingly in the negative direction because the people currently pushing diversity are overwhelmingly doing it for ideological reasons using extremely inappropriate tools like critical theory rather than doing it for great reasons like increasing productivity by fully utilizing previously underutilized labor. They are not looking for diversity of ideas, they are actively pushing for compliance with their world view and crushing dissent. I am not sure where you are trying to go with your commentary on diligence vs compliance, it doesn't seem particularly relevant and is concerningly Orwellian in that you seem to be saying people need to internalize hiring based on immutable characteristics to ensure those characteristics are represented rather than on competency. I don't want anyone to internalize any of that. I want diversity policy to be a bit of a pain in the ass that forces potentially biased people to try and choose the best they can from a severely underrepresented subset and then watch that choice do well and therefore help them re-calibrate their internal model to not miss out on quality hires outside their experience set. The goal should never be to diligently hire diversity, the goal should always be to help hiring managers trying to do their best improve.
  - O__________O 4y ago
    Compliance is a checklist, diligence is an intent based on an action objective by a skill practitioner; common example being “Security by compliance” - which is taken as a negative practice and one that’s done to meet the letter of the objectives, not the spirit of them, if such a spirit is definable. And yes, much like technology, it’s up to people to insure abuse doesn’t happen. Much likely I said before, there’s reason diversity is an issue, clear examples of abuse from minor to horrific, and very unlikely there’s an optimal solution. That said, I feel exactly confident in saying that currently that inequality, diversity, etc — are still major cultural issues in almost any region in the world; in some countries, inhospitable towards foreign cultures is the norm, not the exception.