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> It's best for the company to scream it to the world. Or at least that's what the leaders think right now. After sitting in a room where we were told we neede

> It's best for the company to scream it to the world. Or at least that's what the leaders think right now. After sitting in a room where we were told we needed to increase our “minority representation in upper management” (and I’m a mostly white manager). There were already 20% apparently, they wanted 40%. I asked my boss, “so what does that mean to me? To me it seems like you don’t want me” Boss: “oh no, you’re fine” Me: “I don’t know, pretty obvious you want a higher representation of people not like me” I quit after that. I was manager of one of the most productive research teams, created the most IP for the company, had the top projects, and yeah — lost me to this bs. I was joined by several other top people. Now they have a “diverse”, but less passionate, less competent team. Good luck with this stuff.

DebtDeflation 4y ago
Unfortunately, I had an even worse experience. Boss: "You need to build a more diverse team." Me: "What are you talking about? I'm 1 of only 2 white people on the entire 12 person team." Boss: "Indians and Asians don't count as diverse." Me: "Really? I did not know that. I do have 2 Hispanics on the team though." Boss: "You're not hearing me. You don't have any black people and only have 2 women." It became clear that "diversity" was not the goal, but rather something much more specific, likely because the metric the company was tracking specified it that way.
- lettergram 4y ago
  > It became clear that "diversity" was not the goal, but rather something much more specific, likely because the metric the company was tracking specified it that way. Indeed, it's not about "diversity" in the classic sense.
kenjackson 4y ago
Honestly your take seems a bit childish. I coach basketball and I say “we need more bigs”. Should my smaller lightening quick point guard quit? No. I want a diverse team. The fact that you didn’t get that would make me question if I wanted you on the team. Not your race/gender.
- lettergram 4y ago
  > I coach basketball and I say “we need more bigs”. First, yes I'd say that is ridiculous. There are shorter NBA players, the fact we target "bigs" shows a lazy coach who's incapable of assessing the best way to form a team. Second, size does play a factor [one of many] in basketball; In coding, neither the amount of melanin, hair color, eye color, nor gender play a role. We can argue a diversity of ideas or backgrounds are good. That's why we hired people with degrees in different fields; we hired people with different work experience. You don't want to say "we need less white people" or "we need less green eyed people". Sorry, but in your example it's equivalent to saying "I want more blonds in basketball" -- there is no relation. > The fact that you didn’t get that would make me question if I wanted you on the team I did not want to work with bigots of any kind.
  - kenjackson 4y ago
    > First, yes I'd say that is ridiculous. There are shorter NBA players, the fact we target "bigs" shows a lazy coach who's incapable of assessing the best way to form a team. The fact that you speak so confidently about a topic you clearly know almost nothing about I think speaks to why maybe your old team seemed OK to let you go. > You don't want to say "we need less white people" or "we need less green eyed people". Sorry, but in your example it's equivalent to saying "I want more blonds in basketball" -- there is no relation. You clearly missed the point of the analogy. The point was that you can look for one attribute, while still having a need for another. You seem to have conflated this with an unrelated point. Maybe not surprising. But now lets talk about your latter point. You seem to miss one of the main points of DEI. Let's use another basketball example :-) Jeremy Lin. He went largely unrecruited in HS, despite winning the California state championship over powerhouse Mater Dei, winning Nor Cal player of the year and was 1st team all state. And basically had no D1 offers. Why? Largely because he was Asian. So, he goes to Harvard and has a good career there. He went undrafted despite great measurables -- including being one of the fastest people in the combine -- think Kyrie quickness and John Wall speed. He was in many ways a generational athlete. He eventually signed as a free agent after summer league to languish on the bench. It wasn't until one night, at the end of his contract, when he was likely done with his NBA career did he play and he played with a "if I'm ever gonna do it, I gotta do it now attitude". And he went on one of the most impressive runs in NBA history -- Linsanity. Go look it up. Now I tell this story because his whole life he was discriminated against because he was Asian. He never asked to be played over people that were better than him. Simply to give him a chance. He would never show up in a referral from John Wall or Kobe Bryant. He doesn't run in those circles. His last name doesn't evoke images of a ridiculous skilled guard. But he was. DEI is about saying, "you've done a sufficiently good job of demonizing everything that comes from POC -- so that you immediately discount the way they walk, talk, where they go to HS, go to college, etc... But set aside these biases and try to let some in the front door to at least give them a chance at the interview. Try not to assume because they went to Howard they are less than." Lin went to Harvard because no other D1s would give him a spot. He was a Duke level player at a low-level non-scholarship school. And the thing is that sports/basketball are among the most meritocratic activities on this planet. Yet racial bias reared its heard. You don't think this happens everyday in investment banking? Or for consulting? All the places where its so much harder to objectively measure the quality of work done. If you're a GM in basketball and you're not saying, "we need to look at more Asian player. We need to look around the globe for talent" then you're not doing your job. And coincidentally its now arguable that the four best basketball players in the NBA are all international: Giannis, Luka, Jokic, and Embid. Peoople had to open their eyes and see that it wasn't just an inner city game.

DebtDeflation 4y ago

Unfortunately, I had an even worse experience. Boss: "You need to build a more diverse team." Me: "What are you talking about? I'm 1 of only 2 white people on the entire 12 person team." Boss: "Indians and Asians don't count as diverse." Me: "Really? I did not know that. I do have 2 Hispanics on the team though." Boss: "You're not hearing me. You don't have any black people and only have 2 women." It became clear that "diversity" was not the goal, but rather something much more specific, likely because the metric the company was tracking specified it that way.

lettergram 4y ago
> It became clear that "diversity" was not the goal, but rather something much more specific, likely because the metric the company was tracking specified it that way. Indeed, it's not about "diversity" in the classic sense.

kenjackson 4y ago

Honestly your take seems a bit childish. I coach basketball and I say “we need more bigs”. Should my smaller lightening quick point guard quit? No. I want a diverse team. The fact that you didn’t get that would make me question if I wanted you on the team. Not your race/gender.

lettergram 4y ago
> I coach basketball and I say “we need more bigs”. First, yes I'd say that is ridiculous. There are shorter NBA players, the fact we target "bigs" shows a lazy coach who's incapable of assessing the best way to form a team. Second, size does play a factor [one of many] in basketball; In coding, neither the amount of melanin, hair color, eye color, nor gender play a role. We can argue a diversity of ideas or backgrounds are good. That's why we hired people with degrees in different fields; we hired people with different work experience. You don't want to say "we need less white people" or "we need less green eyed people". Sorry, but in your example it's equivalent to saying "I want more blonds in basketball" -- there is no relation. > The fact that you didn’t get that would make me question if I wanted you on the team I did not want to work with bigots of any kind.
- kenjackson 4y ago
  > First, yes I'd say that is ridiculous. There are shorter NBA players, the fact we target "bigs" shows a lazy coach who's incapable of assessing the best way to form a team. The fact that you speak so confidently about a topic you clearly know almost nothing about I think speaks to why maybe your old team seemed OK to let you go. > You don't want to say "we need less white people" or "we need less green eyed people". Sorry, but in your example it's equivalent to saying "I want more blonds in basketball" -- there is no relation. You clearly missed the point of the analogy. The point was that you can look for one attribute, while still having a need for another. You seem to have conflated this with an unrelated point. Maybe not surprising. But now lets talk about your latter point. You seem to miss one of the main points of DEI. Let's use another basketball example :-) Jeremy Lin. He went largely unrecruited in HS, despite winning the California state championship over powerhouse Mater Dei, winning Nor Cal player of the year and was 1st team all state. And basically had no D1 offers. Why? Largely because he was Asian. So, he goes to Harvard and has a good career there. He went undrafted despite great measurables -- including being one of the fastest people in the combine -- think Kyrie quickness and John Wall speed. He was in many ways a generational athlete. He eventually signed as a free agent after summer league to languish on the bench. It wasn't until one night, at the end of his contract, when he was likely done with his NBA career did he play and he played with a "if I'm ever gonna do it, I gotta do it now attitude". And he went on one of the most impressive runs in NBA history -- Linsanity. Go look it up. Now I tell this story because his whole life he was discriminated against because he was Asian. He never asked to be played over people that were better than him. Simply to give him a chance. He would never show up in a referral from John Wall or Kobe Bryant. He doesn't run in those circles. His last name doesn't evoke images of a ridiculous skilled guard. But he was. DEI is about saying, "you've done a sufficiently good job of demonizing everything that comes from POC -- so that you immediately discount the way they walk, talk, where they go to HS, go to college, etc... But set aside these biases and try to let some in the front door to at least give them a chance at the interview. Try not to assume because they went to Howard they are less than." Lin went to Harvard because no other D1s would give him a spot. He was a Duke level player at a low-level non-scholarship school. And the thing is that sports/basketball are among the most meritocratic activities on this planet. Yet racial bias reared its heard. You don't think this happens everyday in investment banking? Or for consulting? All the places where its so much harder to objectively measure the quality of work done. If you're a GM in basketball and you're not saying, "we need to look at more Asian player. We need to look around the globe for talent" then you're not doing your job. And coincidentally its now arguable that the four best basketball players in the NBA are all international: Giannis, Luka, Jokic, and Embid. Peoople had to open their eyes and see that it wasn't just an inner city game.