5 ms·

I'm not up to date on spy-balloon technology, but what kind of things can they learn using a balloon that they couldn't have learned by using a satellite?

hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
Today's New York Times piece says >Now [balloons] are making a comeback, because while spy satellites can see almost everything, balloons equipped with high-tech sensors hover over a site far longer and can pick up radio, cellular and other transmissions that cannot be detected from space. That is why the Montana sighting of the balloon was critical; in recent years, the National Security Agency and United States Strategic Command, which oversees the American nuclear arsenal, have been remaking communications with nuclear weapons sites. That would be one, but only one, of the natural targets for China’s Ministry of State Security, which oversees many of its national security hacks. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/05/us/politics/balloon-china-spying-united-states.html?unlocked_article_code=G0tbSJLwVu6K7u1F-8RyhHPePvirkVbi589U1dS2uj8kj4XOSbS9NIi0dd4CtBk31vXEmrUeaImuIRsK3Z-8_rKirYGr6G4297Wgg9C0oIMJ4q90ntZ-ji6oYgVvMJFBMOCh0NhW0uy2L5F3XDG77YBAiS0XaWskxRtINaAo-xWzmoIYklJc9l55JrOtFyi2PTmArvUWm7_Ml1w0sK8Q9mI2qCjRrSArFai1Yz3FJqoSiDkrqNfH4WmU_Bsp51Lf31Ahh4aRVPPsRlT00lublNdd86c5cWqRjVufySbmLNh_zf7PTt3jofCO2HMceUT_OFKQt156qP9gXVyUcUD3gFZYkLZiw1OBk7jtyJq-G5M&smid=share-url https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/05/us/politics/balloon-china...
- grugagag 4y ago
  Does the baloon transmit the data back via sattelite or is it recorded on a device and has to be phisically retrieved?
  - hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
    That's a good question. I haven't heard any information one way or the other, and it wouldn't surprise me if the public never learns those kinds of details (or, rather, only learns in 30 years or whenever it gets declassified)
  - ourmandave 4y ago
    If it we're me I'd assume whatever the balloon is carrying is expendable since it over foreign airspace and/or weather is a thing. They're controlling the altitude so I assume they have it transmit data back either upon command or continuously.
    - exitb 4y ago
      Do you have any source for the claim that the balloon altitude was controlled remotely? I didn't see it mentioned until now.
      - hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
        The Pentagon press secretary said that the balloon was known to have "the ability to maneuver" but didn't offer details. There's some discussion at https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-balloon-has-unexpected-maneuverability/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-ballo...
      - CydeWeys 4y ago
        For what it's worth, this is how the Project Loon balloons worked. It's a proven concept.
        exitb 4y ago
        It sure is, but the Chinese claim is that this was a lost piece of scientific equipment, out of range for for any active control.
        CydeWeys 4y ago
        And the Chinese government lies about anything and everything.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
nycdatasci 4y ago
Orbits and schedules of satellites are well-known. A balloon gives you eyes in the sky outside of those known schedules and longer hover times.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Balloons have the same problem; you can see them. You know when one's over your ICBM field.
  - red-iron-pine 4y ago
    NORAD claims it was tracking it as soon as it started heading across the pacific
  - nycdatasci 4y ago
    “Prior Chinese Balloon Incursions Over U.S. Went Undetected, Officials Say” https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-decision-to-delay-shootdown-of-chinese-balloon-questioned-11675616189 https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-decision-to-delay-shootdo...
StanislavPetrov 4y ago
Aside from the much, much slower movement (more time over targets), a balloon is roughly 10x closer to the surface than even the lowest satellite.

hoppyhoppy2 4y ago

Today's New York Times piece says >Now [balloons] are making a comeback, because while spy satellites can see almost everything, balloons equipped with high-tech sensors hover over a site far longer and can pick up radio, cellular and other transmissions that cannot be detected from space. That is why the Montana sighting of the balloon was critical; in recent years, the National Security Agency and United States Strategic Command, which oversees the American nuclear arsenal, have been remaking communications with nuclear weapons sites. That would be one, but only one, of the natural targets for China’s Ministry of State Security, which oversees many of its national security hacks. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/05/us/politics/balloon-china-spying-united-states.html?unlocked_article_code=G0tbSJLwVu6K7u1F-8RyhHPePvirkVbi589U1dS2uj8kj4XOSbS9NIi0dd4CtBk31vXEmrUeaImuIRsK3Z-8_rKirYGr6G4297Wgg9C0oIMJ4q90ntZ-ji6oYgVvMJFBMOCh0NhW0uy2L5F3XDG77YBAiS0XaWskxRtINaAo-xWzmoIYklJc9l55JrOtFyi2PTmArvUWm7_Ml1w0sK8Q9mI2qCjRrSArFai1Yz3FJqoSiDkrqNfH4WmU_Bsp51Lf31Ahh4aRVPPsRlT00lublNdd86c5cWqRjVufySbmLNh_zf7PTt3jofCO2HMceUT_OFKQt156qP9gXVyUcUD3gFZYkLZiw1OBk7jtyJq-G5M&smid=share-url https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/05/us/politics/balloon-china...

grugagag 4y ago
Does the baloon transmit the data back via sattelite or is it recorded on a device and has to be phisically retrieved?
- hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
  That's a good question. I haven't heard any information one way or the other, and it wouldn't surprise me if the public never learns those kinds of details (or, rather, only learns in 30 years or whenever it gets declassified)
- ourmandave 4y ago
  If it we're me I'd assume whatever the balloon is carrying is expendable since it over foreign airspace and/or weather is a thing. They're controlling the altitude so I assume they have it transmit data back either upon command or continuously.
  - exitb 4y ago
    Do you have any source for the claim that the balloon altitude was controlled remotely? I didn't see it mentioned until now.
    - hoppyhoppy2 4y ago
      The Pentagon press secretary said that the balloon was known to have "the ability to maneuver" but didn't offer details. There's some discussion at https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-balloon-has-unexpected-maneuverability/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/chinese-spy-ballo...
    - CydeWeys 4y ago
      For what it's worth, this is how the Project Loon balloons worked. It's a proven concept.
      - exitb 4y ago
        It sure is, but the Chinese claim is that this was a lost piece of scientific equipment, out of range for for any active control.
        CydeWeys 4y ago
        And the Chinese government lies about anything and everything.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

nycdatasci 4y ago

Orbits and schedules of satellites are well-known. A balloon gives you eyes in the sky outside of those known schedules and longer hover times.

ceejayoz 4y ago
Balloons have the same problem; you can see them. You know when one's over your ICBM field.
- red-iron-pine 4y ago
  NORAD claims it was tracking it as soon as it started heading across the pacific
- nycdatasci 4y ago
  “Prior Chinese Balloon Incursions Over U.S. Went Undetected, Officials Say” https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-decision-to-delay-shootdown-of-chinese-balloon-questioned-11675616189 https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-decision-to-delay-shootdo...

StanislavPetrov 4y ago

Aside from the much, much slower movement (more time over targets), a balloon is roughly 10x closer to the surface than even the lowest satellite.