7 ms·

The hypocrisy is in hiring people in far away timezones from each other and then pretending that "being in the office is better." Since you have to communicate

by t43562 4y ago

The hypocrisy is in hiring people in far away timezones from each other and then pretending that "being in the office is better." Since you have to communicate via chat and email to keep everyone "together" it stops mattering that you're in the same building as someone. The guys in the US, Belgium and India will almost never be in the room with me and we have to make a team of it despite that. Personally, I think the commute is wasted time and (a lot of) money. I get to take my daughter to school, to collect her and to spend time with her before she goes to sleep and I am not giving that up without a fight. Try to force me and I'll try to find another job and there are plenty on offer.

saiya-jin 4y ago
I do agree about saved personal time and it has been great for that, but having somebody in person on a meeting, or quick chats/questions about design, code, testing, business etc. is significantly more effective than endless calls. Having big time zones difference means consistently having those questions unanswered for hours/a day instead of 10 seconds. The very same reasons why outsourcing was consistently a fail before covid and ended up costing more with inevitable reversals. What kind of worked was near shore, ie cca same time zone, and less savings. But good luck getting that accepted by MBAs.
- t43562 4y ago
  Sure, I rely on chat - it helps everyone because as good as an instant reply is, it interrupts people a lot. Chat is the best compromise for me. Calls are for serious "we must work together" things. Working with people overseas is just tricky. China is much too far from my timezone - that' nearly impossible. The Indians I work with put up with very odd hours to be part of our team. It's hard to keep them - they frequently get better offers and leave. The guys in the US are east coast which is not so bad but it makes meetings difficult. I don't really know how a company like mine could totally avoid being global so to an extent we just have to make something work. In my last office job I could never get any work done during the day because it was all interruptions and people making use of their ability to "just have a moment." I'd stay till 10pm to do the actual programming. Nowadays with a family that just isn't going to happen so I like a bit of distance. I think it's useful to meet people once or twice at least - that has turned out to be very good in my experience.
adamhp 4y ago
I honestly appreciate being forced to communicate asynchronously. Write shit down. Document it. Iterate on it. Turn what used to be referred to as "organizational knowledge" into a literal product that doesn't just exist in the ether as some sort of right-of-passage or job security perk for senior employees.

by t43562 4y ago

saiya-jin 4y ago

I do agree about saved personal time and it has been great for that, but having somebody in person on a meeting, or quick chats/questions about design, code, testing, business etc. is significantly more effective than endless calls. Having big time zones difference means consistently having those questions unanswered for hours/a day instead of 10 seconds. The very same reasons why outsourcing was consistently a fail before covid and ended up costing more with inevitable reversals. What kind of worked was near shore, ie cca same time zone, and less savings. But good luck getting that accepted by MBAs.

t43562 4y ago
Sure, I rely on chat - it helps everyone because as good as an instant reply is, it interrupts people a lot. Chat is the best compromise for me. Calls are for serious "we must work together" things. Working with people overseas is just tricky. China is much too far from my timezone - that' nearly impossible. The Indians I work with put up with very odd hours to be part of our team. It's hard to keep them - they frequently get better offers and leave. The guys in the US are east coast which is not so bad but it makes meetings difficult. I don't really know how a company like mine could totally avoid being global so to an extent we just have to make something work. In my last office job I could never get any work done during the day because it was all interruptions and people making use of their ability to "just have a moment." I'd stay till 10pm to do the actual programming. Nowadays with a family that just isn't going to happen so I like a bit of distance. I think it's useful to meet people once or twice at least - that has turned out to be very good in my experience.

adamhp 4y ago

I honestly appreciate being forced to communicate asynchronously. Write shit down. Document it. Iterate on it. Turn what used to be referred to as "organizational knowledge" into a literal product that doesn't just exist in the ether as some sort of right-of-passage or job security perk for senior employees.