15 ms·

The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012)

127 points by chha 4y ago

robrorcroptrer 4y ago
I will never forget the feeling of reading this for the first time on my iPad some years ago. It kind of helped me get out of a rut, his grit is inspiring.
LarryMullins 4y ago
Crazy that you can call a place Death Valley and still have people not take it seriously.
- basementcat 4y ago
  Death Valley can be quite beautiful in the spring, especially after a rainy winter. https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/wildflower-seasons.htm https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/wildflower-seasons.htm
  - msrenee 4y ago
    They disappeared at the end of July.
- dsfyu404ed 4y ago
  The threshold for warning people of danger in modern society is so low that people become desensitized.
  - panzagl 4y ago
    I mean, if you go to Death Valley from the California side you've already been told you have, like, a million cancer exposures.
  - prawn 4y ago
    At Valley of Fire, 30-60 minutes from Las Vegas, there's a hike with a permanent sign at the beginning no matter the season/weather saying: "HEAT WARNING. Hiking is not recommended." This is despite the park recommending the hike on their map/brochure and at the visitor centre... Obviously it gets hot there and being close to Vegas means people show up in jeans and with poor wayfinding skills. But I do wonder if the sign dissuades no one but desensitises others. Bit of a balancing act trying to adequately warn people who pay little attention, but keep it as the wild experience people want to have.
    - LorenPechtel 4y ago
      Yeah, that sign is stupid. In the right time of year it's perfectly reasonable to hike. In the hot time you would have to be insane--but the sign doesn't distinguish between those cases.
      - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
        Because of pervasive ass-covering in the kinds of organizations responsible for this kind of messaging and infantilization of people just in general they just put a "pls don't do the thing you're here to do" sign that everyone will ignore rather than an informative sign and "make your own decision" that might actually help a few people think twice about doing something actually dumb.
      - prawn 4y ago
        Even in the heat, it's not a particularly long hike. Morning or evening wouldn't be an issue. That said, it's not like the majority of tourists show up early!
        LorenPechtel 4y ago
        The people who need the signs aren't the ones who are paying attention to conditions. I never head out without either checking the weather myself or knowing that a person whose judgment I trust has checked the weather.
      - 4y ago
  - euroderf 4y ago
    I read an interview with a US park ranger. They said people walk right up to the edge of canyons to get a gander. Like they're at home watching TV. Makes the rangers cringe.
    - LarryMullins 4y ago
      It's like they think the canyon was engineered by Disney amusement park engineers to be safe and normie-proof. Surely they wouldn't open a canyon attraction without first engineering the cliff to never collapse, right? If there's no guardrail, that must mean it's safe.
- sizzzzlerz 4y ago
  people are idiots. every year people die in the park because they know better than the rangers and go out when it’s 130 without water or a hat
- LorenPechtel 4y ago
  By summer the name is quite appropriate. In the winter it can be a nice, albeit stark, place to visit.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- cratermoon 4y ago
  There's an entire series of books titled "Death in ..." for US national parks, each one detailing incidents where people (not always tourists) ended up dead because they didn't take the risks seriously. https://longreads.com/2022/11/15/death-in-national-parks/ https://longreads.com/2022/11/15/death-in-national-parks/
gwbas1c 4y ago
I read this whole thing a few years ago. It's fascinating.
pvg 4y ago
some previous threads: 2020, 75 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417 2019, 38 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057 2016, 61 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567
- dang 4y ago
  Thanks! Macroexpanded: The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417 - June 2020 (75 comments) Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057 - Feb 2019 (38 comments) The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567 - July 2016 (61 comments) The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723065 - June 2015 (1 comment)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
user3939382 4y ago
I grew up (what I since learned people distinguish as "primitive") camping, hiking, in the ocean, etc. Not fear, but respect, for the power of nature was ingrained from the time of my earliest memories. It wasn't until I was an adult I realized I was assuming this was universal and sadly it's definitely not. I hear stories like this more often than I'd like and all I can do is shake my head. It's just sad and tragic and unnecessary.
- neuronic 4y ago
  Another poster already commented on this, but as a German I think it is important to provide some perspective: There is next to no way to be outside of civilization and basic infrastructure for more than 30min of walking. Ok, maybe it is hyperbole and it is really 1-2 hours of walking in any direction but you're honestly going to have a tough time to not run into people and infrastructure anywhere in the country. Western Europe is really dense when it comes to distance between urban areas in a way that has to feel foreign/weird for Americans. The distance between everything feels really different in the US versus Germany which either side will never fully understand or grasp until they're exposed to it in real life. I appreciated it truly for the first time when I nearly ran out of gas on Route 66 back when I was a tourist before moving to the US. The needle was at 0, I had sweaty palms like never before. In contrast, a 2 hour drive anywhere in Germany feels really long and annoying, you will certainly pass multiple major urban areas. A 7h commute in the US vs. a 8.5h commute in Germany: https://imgur.com/a/OSuzrF8 https://imgur.com/a/OSuzrF8
jtwaleson 4y ago
I read this here in 2019 I think, and visited Death Valley last October. When we were preparing the drive from Vegas to Mammoth lake, Google Maps would show different routes every day. It turned out the 190 was closed and they were busy working on it, updating the status regularly. After driving for a couple of hours we hit a roadblock and without any cell phone reception we felt really helpless. We gambled a bit and took a narrow winding road towards Telescope Peak (I believe). Then I started thinking about the Germans because the road we were on was not even on my cached Google Maps. I just saw it isn't on the live one either... Luckily we made it just fine and took a 3 hour southern detour past Ridgecrest. We still made it to Willy's Hot Springs near Mammoth lake before nightfall. What a fantastic trip!
- omnibrain 4y ago
  We drove from Death Valley to Ridgecrest. The 40 miles from the 190/178 junction to Trona where the loneliest drive ever. Just a strip of asphalt in the dark, with nearly no street markings and shrubbery on both sides.
brazzy 4y ago
Since the first time I read this, I've wondered what they could have done to survive once the car got stuck. The only thing I came up with is to set fire to the car and hope the smoke would get someone to come look.
- metacritic12 4y ago
  I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the car not have bought them enough time? I don't know if the advantage was enough, but basically the conclusion was that they found the car first. And this type of story keeps on happening (like the car in Washington state a few years ago where the only person who died wandered away from their car), to the extent there's a real lesson to stay still.
  - evan_ 4y ago
    The car wasn't found for three months, so probably not.
  - ipsi 4y ago
    > I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the car not have bought them enough time? Considering they went missing in June/July, and the car wasn't found until October, I think that's unlikely. As a general rule, absolutely, but in this case it wouldn't have been enough on its own.
- linksnapzz 4y ago
  I think that's actually the recommended course of action, if you're stuck somewhere remote, especially in the snow. Light the spare tire on fire-tire smoke is very dark & thick, and can been seen for miles in the daytime.
  - tstrimple 4y ago
    Yes. Use the spare tire, not the car. The car may be your only source of shade or shelter overnight.
mvexel 4y ago
I read this after seeing a previous link to it on HN. One of the most haunting tales of folks getting lost in remote places[1]. I live in the West and love to explore remote places. But being from Western Europe originally, it took me a while to fully appreciate what "remote" means. You're dozens of miles away from water, cell service, human settlement. You're on your own. Be prepared. Bring an InReach and know how to use it. (Or, these days, an iPhone, if you can accept the limitations.) [1] Another haunting one is the Chretiens in 2011 https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/seven-weeks-in-wilderness-rita-chretien-recalls-her-nightmare/article556079/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/seven-...
- heipei 4y ago
  As a German myself I think I can confidently say that most of my country-men don't have the slightest feeling for what "remote" actually means until they have actually been to some of these places outside of Europe. "Remote" to a German might mean that it takes more than 30 minutes to the next highway. "Remote" means that cell reception drops to 3G, or that there's only one gas station in a 20km radius. Lots of folks I knew always talked about going to the outback in Australia as their first major trip abroad, because "it's so remote". It's hard to convince them that there's "remote enough" and "way too remote". I know plenty of places, specifically in Canada and the US, where driving for ~ 60 minutes from a major city will get you somewhere remote enough that you won't spot another soul. This is hard to grasp for us Germans since there's basically no place in the whole country where you're truly by yourself. My two cents.
  - rob74 4y ago
    For me (fellow German) the first eye-opener was after arriving in LA and driving East along the I-10: first you drive for ~70 miles through the LA sprawl, then that peters out, then you reach Palm Springs, and then, after you have left that behind too, nothing (except for desert). The contrast between an agglomeration with 12.5 million people and the vast empty space right next to it is really fascinating...
    - 4y ago
rwmj 4y ago
Can anyone identify the cabin, Anvil Canyon and the other places on Google Maps? Best I can come up with is this route from the cabin to the canyon, but Google says it is 19 miles (versus 4 miles in the article): https://goo.gl/maps/2hBb7Cb2T9oa5ed49 https://goo.gl/maps/2hBb7Cb2T9oa5ed49
- erentz 4y ago
  Here's a map with many of the locations and routes: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1FdGZI6DDRPe3Y9-dtpLGGtDr2pQ&usp=sharing https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1FdGZI6DDRPe3Y9-dtpLG...
- RamblingCTO 4y ago
  If you check one of the previous times it was posted, you get this list of maps and additional resources here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23596451 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23596451
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jonah 4y ago
I read this series and some of Mahood's other writings just as I was getting into Search and Rescue myself and it was quite inspiring. I've been on a few extended searches and there's a lot of thought and research that goes into getting into people's heads to try to figure out where they went.
_vbnz 4y ago
It's horrible that it seems the parents died before the children too. What an awful way to die, but totally understandable that in the moment they were more worried about retrieving the rental car and making it to LA on time than finding shelter for the long haul.
- LorenPechtel 4y ago
  There's no "long haul" out there. I've never been in that part of the park, but from looking at the map I would say the only likely survival there would be to hunker down and push the button (the backcountry equivalent to calling 911--not an option back then.) If that were not an option I would wait for nightfall, keep all lights and navigation, space blankets, sun umbrella and the jerry can of water, abandon everything else and try to hoof it. I would consider success unlikely. Given the supplies they had I would consider survival impossible.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
    And always go back the way you came, rather than hoping help is just around the next bend or hill.
    - LorenPechtel 4y ago
      It depends on the situation. If you have had a breakdown and have to hoof it (which normally shouldn't happen anyway--you should be prepared to hold out until you're reported overdue and they're looking for you) you could be in a situation where you know ahead is shorter than behind. That assumes you know where you are and what the roads around are like.
bombcar 4y ago
The search for Bill Ewasko is the one that really weirds me out: https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/searching-for-bill-ewasko/ https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/search...
- JoshGG 4y ago
  Note that there's a more recent chapter to this one (spoilers in the link!) https://www.crossville-chronicle.com/news/glade_sun/enjoying-nature-a-12-year-mystery-is-finally-solved/article_18f61480-9a47-11ec-b795-f7115d76f958.html https://www.crossville-chronicle.com/news/glade_sun/enjoying...
  - bombcar 4y ago
    Thank you for this! I've been hopeposting the link every time either of the stories come up hoping for a follow up.
  - prawn 4y ago
    Has there been a mention of where the remains were found and if it matches with Mahood's guess? Edit: Found some info here - https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/spn0uw/bill_ewasko_has_been_found_remains_found_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/spn0uw/bill_ewa... And more here, including comments from someone who found the body: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/sox6v4/comment/hxbyf0z/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/sox6v4...
    - bombcar 4y ago
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvrRytPRrIE&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvrRytPRrIE&feature=youtu.be From one of the amateur searchers
- RamblingCTO 4y ago
  Archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20221006171641/https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/searching-for-bill-ewasko/ https://web.archive.org/web/20221006171641/https://www.other...
JoshGG 4y ago
If you find these types of 'disappeared in the wilderness' stories interesting, there's a really interesting one about a group of skiers in the Ural Mountains: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/17/has-an-old-soviet-mystery-at-last-been-solved https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/17/has-an-old-sov...
- karlzt 4y ago
  Read it while listening to this related Dark Ambient: Sana Obruent — Dyatlov (2017): https://youtu.be/2tNVZqbR1YA https://youtu.be/2tNVZqbR1YA
  - RamblingCTO 4y ago
    Or this post rock song/the album "departure songs" by We Lost The Sea": [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjK63m2GLek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjK63m2GLek [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBOVkptjJhE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBOVkptjJhE
karmelapple 4y ago
This reminded me of the strange story of Takako Konishi, a woman from Japan who came to North Dakota and was found dead, dressed very inappropriately for the cold winter weather. The story that was shared by news outlets said she was searching for the briefcase full of cash that appeared in the movie Fargo by the Coen Brothers. The reality was very different. [1] [2] [1] https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2013/12/04/the-true-story-of-the-true-story-inspired-by-the-true-story-of-fargo/amp https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2013/12/04/the-true-story-of-th... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi
rcurry 4y ago
I ran into some folks in a similar situation a few years back in the Lucerne valley. We were driving out to check a campsite for a party we were going to have the next weekend and came across some folks in a Pontiac Grand Am - same story, they’d started getting bogged down in the sand and so kept accelerating deeper into the nowhere, eventually getting high centered on some rocks. When we found them it was a Sunday and they’d been there for nine hours, they told us they hadn’t seen anyone. We were in a big F250 4x4 so we pulled them out and got them pointed back down the road. I wonder what would have happened if we hadn’t shown up that day. To their credit they had two cases of bottled water in their car so they weren’t entirely stupid.
whartung 4y ago
I think the most heartwarming aspect of this story is simply the institutions and the people available and involved with the search process. Long after the vehicle was abandoned, a lot of people, time, and expertise were let loose and focused on the problem of this missing family. As of a week ago, they may have stopped now, teams have been searching the local mountains for a missing hiker. They're already 2 weeks into the search. We take these institutions for granted, but I'm grateful to the team members and volunteers that work these cases.
cloudripper 4y ago
I'm an active volunteer with Inyo County Search and Rescue. I was not around during the author's search efforts but have heard much about this article over the years. I have heard about the harrowing story, the amazing accomplishments of his personal efforts, and the resulting missions that took place to give closure. Unfortunately, I have heard more about this article because of the antagonistic rhetoric used while telling his tale and to sum up his personal beef with law enforcement personnel - and the "sorry, not sorry" follow-up message to attempt to make that rhetoric ok. To clean-up his rhetoric - he attempts to make clear that he respects any SAR team and his beef with with the Sheriff's Office. He also makes it convenient to add that SAR teams operate under the Sheriff's Office. I have known quite a few who have been offended by the author's statements. These are folks who volunteer and who give a significant amount of their personal time to respond, to put themselves in sometimes very risky/challenging situations to save lives and provide closure. I have personally been on a number of very challenging searches and rescues in the vicinity of this incident - some of the toughest things I've faced in my life. This is my choice, I am a volunteer and am passionate about going into the mountains to help others as I would hope to be helped. I have known a number of truly good human beings who are passionate about giving of their personal time to help others get out of a difficult space and to help provide closure. In the end, none do it for anyone else's approval. That said, being painted with antagonism when you have done nothing but give can feel like a punch to the gut. I hope that you will take the fruits from this narrative and leave behind the saltiness. First responders, whether full-time professionals or part-time volunteers, have their quirks. But there are many good humans out there and we have to believe in that -- otherwise, life would be way too salty.
- m348e912 4y ago
  >> I have personally been on a number of very challenging searches and rescues in the vicinity of this incident - some of the toughest things I've faced in my life. Thanks for sharing your perspective. Can you tell us what made your searches so challenging. I suspect the team is well prepared, has adequate resources, and knowledge of the area. Was it mostly the unbearable heat and conditions?
  - 4y ago
daveslash 4y ago
RE >> "Costs for the search were approximately $80,000 in 1996 dollars." I have a question about this. But before I proceed, let me be clear: I am not questioning the expense - in my view, it's well spent. My question: when my local government nit-picks over the cost of a fixing a pot-hole on a main boulevard, how do costs like this get justified at the government level? Especially given the time frame: the vehicle had clearly been there a while and they had evidence that the Germans were there possibly as early as July and the search was October. Not to be grim, but the odds of a survival case were low. Not questioning the expense (well spent), but I'm curious to know more about how these sorts of expenses get justified and approved at the bureaucratic level? This is not a criticism, just a question.
- tomcam 4y ago
  It’s my impression that you’ve uncovered a tiny tiny tip of a very very large iceberg. One simple answer is that not fixing a pothole has almost zero political cost. However, not organizing a huge mediagenic search when tourists from a developed country might die could have a massive blowback. So I think they will just tweak the budget of something else later when everyone else has forgotten in order to pay for the search. But think about the police departments in places like Los Angeles, Seattle, Baltimore, and Chicago. They quietly pay settlements of tens of millions of dollars per year for police misconduct of all kinds. Somehow these costs are buried in opaque sections of the budget that no one is willing to disclose. It never appears as a line item. It would take multiple annual freedom of information act applications to start to get to the bottom of what’s happening there.
chizhik-pyzhik 4y ago
Mirror: https://web.archive.org/web/20210309005828/https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210309005828/https://www.other...
out-of-ideas 4y ago
asks for a user+password now https://archive.is/TwoKO https://archive.is/TwoKO
LatteLazy 4y ago
I feel like there is a strand in the human brain that cannot deal with not knowing things or being uncertain. You see this in mysteries like this, but you see the same thing in people's belief that UFOs are aliens, or conspiracy theories or religion. People pick an answer and then adhere to it ABSOLUTELY, being less willing to accept it is uncertain than they are facts like gravity. One example of this is flat earth. But the same "thought structure" occurs with people in political matters or vaccine/climate change denial. Is there a name for this?
dakial1 4y ago
Being a dad with 2 young kids, it kinds of break my heart to read this kind of stories. I wouldn't be moved if this was the story of 2 adults only, but man, bringing kids, who at this age have 100% trust on you, to die like that. Poor souls.

127 points by chha 4y ago

I will never forget the feeling of reading this for the first time on my iPad some years ago. It kind of helped me get out of a rut, his grit is inspiring.

LarryMullins 4y ago

Crazy that you can call a place Death Valley and still have people not take it seriously.

basementcat 4y ago
Death Valley can be quite beautiful in the spring, especially after a rainy winter. https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/wildflower-seasons.htm https://www.nps.gov/deva/learn/nature/wildflower-seasons.htm
- msrenee 4y ago
  They disappeared at the end of July.
dsfyu404ed 4y ago
The threshold for warning people of danger in modern society is so low that people become desensitized.
- panzagl 4y ago
  I mean, if you go to Death Valley from the California side you've already been told you have, like, a million cancer exposures.
- prawn 4y ago
  At Valley of Fire, 30-60 minutes from Las Vegas, there's a hike with a permanent sign at the beginning no matter the season/weather saying: "HEAT WARNING. Hiking is not recommended." This is despite the park recommending the hike on their map/brochure and at the visitor centre... Obviously it gets hot there and being close to Vegas means people show up in jeans and with poor wayfinding skills. But I do wonder if the sign dissuades no one but desensitises others. Bit of a balancing act trying to adequately warn people who pay little attention, but keep it as the wild experience people want to have.
  - LorenPechtel 4y ago
    Yeah, that sign is stupid. In the right time of year it's perfectly reasonable to hike. In the hot time you would have to be insane--but the sign doesn't distinguish between those cases.
    - dsfyu404ed 4y ago
      Because of pervasive ass-covering in the kinds of organizations responsible for this kind of messaging and infantilization of people just in general they just put a "pls don't do the thing you're here to do" sign that everyone will ignore rather than an informative sign and "make your own decision" that might actually help a few people think twice about doing something actually dumb.
    - prawn 4y ago
      Even in the heat, it's not a particularly long hike. Morning or evening wouldn't be an issue. That said, it's not like the majority of tourists show up early!
      - LorenPechtel 4y ago
        The people who need the signs aren't the ones who are paying attention to conditions. I never head out without either checking the weather myself or knowing that a person whose judgment I trust has checked the weather.
    - 4y ago
- euroderf 4y ago
  I read an interview with a US park ranger. They said people walk right up to the edge of canyons to get a gander. Like they're at home watching TV. Makes the rangers cringe.
  - LarryMullins 4y ago
    It's like they think the canyon was engineered by Disney amusement park engineers to be safe and normie-proof. Surely they wouldn't open a canyon attraction without first engineering the cliff to never collapse, right? If there's no guardrail, that must mean it's safe.
sizzzzlerz 4y ago
people are idiots. every year people die in the park because they know better than the rangers and go out when it’s 130 without water or a hat
LorenPechtel 4y ago
By summer the name is quite appropriate. In the winter it can be a nice, albeit stark, place to visit.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cratermoon 4y ago
There's an entire series of books titled "Death in ..." for US national parks, each one detailing incidents where people (not always tourists) ended up dead because they didn't take the risks seriously. https://longreads.com/2022/11/15/death-in-national-parks/ https://longreads.com/2022/11/15/death-in-national-parks/

gwbas1c 4y ago

I read this whole thing a few years ago. It's fascinating.

pvg 4y ago

some previous threads: 2020, 75 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417 2019, 38 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057 2016, 61 comments https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567

dang 4y ago
Thanks! Macroexpanded: The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23582417 - June 2020 (75 comments) Hunt for the Death Valley Germans (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19263057 - Feb 2019 (38 comments) The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12019567 - July 2016 (61 comments) The Hunt for the Death Valley Germans - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9723065 - June 2015 (1 comment)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

user3939382 4y ago

I grew up (what I since learned people distinguish as "primitive") camping, hiking, in the ocean, etc. Not fear, but respect, for the power of nature was ingrained from the time of my earliest memories. It wasn't until I was an adult I realized I was assuming this was universal and sadly it's definitely not. I hear stories like this more often than I'd like and all I can do is shake my head. It's just sad and tragic and unnecessary.

neuronic 4y ago
Another poster already commented on this, but as a German I think it is important to provide some perspective: There is next to no way to be outside of civilization and basic infrastructure for more than 30min of walking. Ok, maybe it is hyperbole and it is really 1-2 hours of walking in any direction but you're honestly going to have a tough time to not run into people and infrastructure anywhere in the country. Western Europe is really dense when it comes to distance between urban areas in a way that has to feel foreign/weird for Americans. The distance between everything feels really different in the US versus Germany which either side will never fully understand or grasp until they're exposed to it in real life. I appreciated it truly for the first time when I nearly ran out of gas on Route 66 back when I was a tourist before moving to the US. The needle was at 0, I had sweaty palms like never before. In contrast, a 2 hour drive anywhere in Germany feels really long and annoying, you will certainly pass multiple major urban areas. A 7h commute in the US vs. a 8.5h commute in Germany: https://imgur.com/a/OSuzrF8 https://imgur.com/a/OSuzrF8

jtwaleson 4y ago

I read this here in 2019 I think, and visited Death Valley last October. When we were preparing the drive from Vegas to Mammoth lake, Google Maps would show different routes every day. It turned out the 190 was closed and they were busy working on it, updating the status regularly. After driving for a couple of hours we hit a roadblock and without any cell phone reception we felt really helpless. We gambled a bit and took a narrow winding road towards Telescope Peak (I believe). Then I started thinking about the Germans because the road we were on was not even on my cached Google Maps. I just saw it isn't on the live one either... Luckily we made it just fine and took a 3 hour southern detour past Ridgecrest. We still made it to Willy's Hot Springs near Mammoth lake before nightfall. What a fantastic trip!

omnibrain 4y ago
We drove from Death Valley to Ridgecrest. The 40 miles from the 190/178 junction to Trona where the loneliest drive ever. Just a strip of asphalt in the dark, with nearly no street markings and shrubbery on both sides.

brazzy 4y ago

Since the first time I read this, I've wondered what they could have done to survive once the car got stuck. The only thing I came up with is to set fire to the car and hope the smoke would get someone to come look.

metacritic12 4y ago
I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the car not have bought them enough time? I don't know if the advantage was enough, but basically the conclusion was that they found the car first. And this type of story keeps on happening (like the car in Washington state a few years ago where the only person who died wandered away from their car), to the extent there's a real lesson to stay still.
- evan_ 4y ago
  The car wasn't found for three months, so probably not.
- ipsi 4y ago
  > I remember they found the car first. Would staying by the car not have bought them enough time? Considering they went missing in June/July, and the car wasn't found until October, I think that's unlikely. As a general rule, absolutely, but in this case it wouldn't have been enough on its own.
linksnapzz 4y ago
I think that's actually the recommended course of action, if you're stuck somewhere remote, especially in the snow. Light the spare tire on fire-tire smoke is very dark & thick, and can been seen for miles in the daytime.
- tstrimple 4y ago
  Yes. Use the spare tire, not the car. The car may be your only source of shade or shelter overnight.

mvexel 4y ago

I read this after seeing a previous link to it on HN. One of the most haunting tales of folks getting lost in remote places[1]. I live in the West and love to explore remote places. But being from Western Europe originally, it took me a while to fully appreciate what "remote" means. You're dozens of miles away from water, cell service, human settlement. You're on your own. Be prepared. Bring an InReach and know how to use it. (Or, these days, an iPhone, if you can accept the limitations.) [1] Another haunting one is the Chretiens in 2011 https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/seven-weeks-in-wilderness-rita-chretien-recalls-her-nightmare/article556079/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/seven-...

heipei 4y ago
As a German myself I think I can confidently say that most of my country-men don't have the slightest feeling for what "remote" actually means until they have actually been to some of these places outside of Europe. "Remote" to a German might mean that it takes more than 30 minutes to the next highway. "Remote" means that cell reception drops to 3G, or that there's only one gas station in a 20km radius. Lots of folks I knew always talked about going to the outback in Australia as their first major trip abroad, because "it's so remote". It's hard to convince them that there's "remote enough" and "way too remote". I know plenty of places, specifically in Canada and the US, where driving for ~ 60 minutes from a major city will get you somewhere remote enough that you won't spot another soul. This is hard to grasp for us Germans since there's basically no place in the whole country where you're truly by yourself. My two cents.
- rob74 4y ago
  For me (fellow German) the first eye-opener was after arriving in LA and driving East along the I-10: first you drive for ~70 miles through the LA sprawl, then that peters out, then you reach Palm Springs, and then, after you have left that behind too, nothing (except for desert). The contrast between an agglomeration with 12.5 million people and the vast empty space right next to it is really fascinating...
  - 4y ago

rwmj 4y ago

Can anyone identify the cabin, Anvil Canyon and the other places on Google Maps? Best I can come up with is this route from the cabin to the canyon, but Google says it is 19 miles (versus 4 miles in the article): https://goo.gl/maps/2hBb7Cb2T9oa5ed49 https://goo.gl/maps/2hBb7Cb2T9oa5ed49

erentz 4y ago
Here's a map with many of the locations and routes: https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1FdGZI6DDRPe3Y9-dtpLGGtDr2pQ&usp=sharing https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1FdGZI6DDRPe3Y9-dtpLG...
RamblingCTO 4y ago
If you check one of the previous times it was posted, you get this list of maps and additional resources here https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23596451 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23596451

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jonah 4y ago

I read this series and some of Mahood's other writings just as I was getting into Search and Rescue myself and it was quite inspiring. I've been on a few extended searches and there's a lot of thought and research that goes into getting into people's heads to try to figure out where they went.

_vbnz 4y ago

It's horrible that it seems the parents died before the children too. What an awful way to die, but totally understandable that in the moment they were more worried about retrieving the rental car and making it to LA on time than finding shelter for the long haul.

LorenPechtel 4y ago
There's no "long haul" out there. I've never been in that part of the park, but from looking at the map I would say the only likely survival there would be to hunker down and push the button (the backcountry equivalent to calling 911--not an option back then.) If that were not an option I would wait for nightfall, keep all lights and navigation, space blankets, sun umbrella and the jerry can of water, abandon everything else and try to hoof it. I would consider success unlikely. Given the supplies they had I would consider survival impossible.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4y ago
  And always go back the way you came, rather than hoping help is just around the next bend or hill.
  - LorenPechtel 4y ago
    It depends on the situation. If you have had a breakdown and have to hoof it (which normally shouldn't happen anyway--you should be prepared to hold out until you're reported overdue and they're looking for you) you could be in a situation where you know ahead is shorter than behind. That assumes you know where you are and what the roads around are like.

bombcar 4y ago

The search for Bill Ewasko is the one that really weirds me out: https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/searching-for-bill-ewasko/ https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/search...

JoshGG 4y ago
Note that there's a more recent chapter to this one (spoilers in the link!) https://www.crossville-chronicle.com/news/glade_sun/enjoying-nature-a-12-year-mystery-is-finally-solved/article_18f61480-9a47-11ec-b795-f7115d76f958.html https://www.crossville-chronicle.com/news/glade_sun/enjoying...
- bombcar 4y ago
  Thank you for this! I've been hopeposting the link every time either of the stories come up hoping for a follow up.
- prawn 4y ago
  Has there been a mention of where the remains were found and if it matches with Mahood's guess? Edit: Found some info here - https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/spn0uw/bill_ewasko_has_been_found_remains_found_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Missing411/comments/spn0uw/bill_ewa... And more here, including comments from someone who found the body: https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/sox6v4/comment/hxbyf0z/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/sox6v4...
  - bombcar 4y ago
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvrRytPRrIE&feature=youtu.be https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvrRytPRrIE&feature=youtu.be From one of the amateur searchers
RamblingCTO 4y ago
Archived link: https://web.archive.org/web/20221006171641/https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/searching-for-bill-ewasko/ https://web.archive.org/web/20221006171641/https://www.other...

JoshGG 4y ago

If you find these types of 'disappeared in the wilderness' stories interesting, there's a really interesting one about a group of skiers in the Ural Mountains: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/17/has-an-old-soviet-mystery-at-last-been-solved https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/05/17/has-an-old-sov...

karlzt 4y ago
Read it while listening to this related Dark Ambient: Sana Obruent — Dyatlov (2017): https://youtu.be/2tNVZqbR1YA https://youtu.be/2tNVZqbR1YA
- RamblingCTO 4y ago
  Or this post rock song/the album "departure songs" by We Lost The Sea": [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjK63m2GLek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjK63m2GLek [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBOVkptjJhE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBOVkptjJhE

karmelapple 4y ago

This reminded me of the strange story of Takako Konishi, a woman from Japan who came to North Dakota and was found dead, dressed very inappropriately for the cold winter weather. The story that was shared by news outlets said she was searching for the briefcase full of cash that appeared in the movie Fargo by the Coen Brothers. The reality was very different. [1] [2] [1] https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2013/12/04/the-true-story-of-the-true-story-inspired-by-the-true-story-of-fargo/amp https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2013/12/04/the-true-story-of-th... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_of_Takako_Konishi

rcurry 4y ago

I ran into some folks in a similar situation a few years back in the Lucerne valley. We were driving out to check a campsite for a party we were going to have the next weekend and came across some folks in a Pontiac Grand Am - same story, they’d started getting bogged down in the sand and so kept accelerating deeper into the nowhere, eventually getting high centered on some rocks. When we found them it was a Sunday and they’d been there for nine hours, they told us they hadn’t seen anyone. We were in a big F250 4x4 so we pulled them out and got them pointed back down the road. I wonder what would have happened if we hadn’t shown up that day. To their credit they had two cases of bottled water in their car so they weren’t entirely stupid.

whartung 4y ago

I think the most heartwarming aspect of this story is simply the institutions and the people available and involved with the search process. Long after the vehicle was abandoned, a lot of people, time, and expertise were let loose and focused on the problem of this missing family. As of a week ago, they may have stopped now, teams have been searching the local mountains for a missing hiker. They're already 2 weeks into the search. We take these institutions for granted, but I'm grateful to the team members and volunteers that work these cases.

cloudripper 4y ago

I'm an active volunteer with Inyo County Search and Rescue. I was not around during the author's search efforts but have heard much about this article over the years. I have heard about the harrowing story, the amazing accomplishments of his personal efforts, and the resulting missions that took place to give closure. Unfortunately, I have heard more about this article because of the antagonistic rhetoric used while telling his tale and to sum up his personal beef with law enforcement personnel - and the "sorry, not sorry" follow-up message to attempt to make that rhetoric ok. To clean-up his rhetoric - he attempts to make clear that he respects any SAR team and his beef with with the Sheriff's Office. He also makes it convenient to add that SAR teams operate under the Sheriff's Office. I have known quite a few who have been offended by the author's statements. These are folks who volunteer and who give a significant amount of their personal time to respond, to put themselves in sometimes very risky/challenging situations to save lives and provide closure. I have personally been on a number of very challenging searches and rescues in the vicinity of this incident - some of the toughest things I've faced in my life. This is my choice, I am a volunteer and am passionate about going into the mountains to help others as I would hope to be helped. I have known a number of truly good human beings who are passionate about giving of their personal time to help others get out of a difficult space and to help provide closure. In the end, none do it for anyone else's approval. That said, being painted with antagonism when you have done nothing but give can feel like a punch to the gut. I hope that you will take the fruits from this narrative and leave behind the saltiness. First responders, whether full-time professionals or part-time volunteers, have their quirks. But there are many good humans out there and we have to believe in that -- otherwise, life would be way too salty.

m348e912 4y ago
>> I have personally been on a number of very challenging searches and rescues in the vicinity of this incident - some of the toughest things I've faced in my life. Thanks for sharing your perspective. Can you tell us what made your searches so challenging. I suspect the team is well prepared, has adequate resources, and knowledge of the area. Was it mostly the unbearable heat and conditions?
- 4y ago

daveslash 4y ago

RE >> "Costs for the search were approximately $80,000 in 1996 dollars." I have a question about this. But before I proceed, let me be clear: I am not questioning the expense - in my view, it's well spent. My question: when my local government nit-picks over the cost of a fixing a pot-hole on a main boulevard, how do costs like this get justified at the government level? Especially given the time frame: the vehicle had clearly been there a while and they had evidence that the Germans were there possibly as early as July and the search was October. Not to be grim, but the odds of a survival case were low. Not questioning the expense (well spent), but I'm curious to know more about how these sorts of expenses get justified and approved at the bureaucratic level? This is not a criticism, just a question.

tomcam 4y ago
It’s my impression that you’ve uncovered a tiny tiny tip of a very very large iceberg. One simple answer is that not fixing a pothole has almost zero political cost. However, not organizing a huge mediagenic search when tourists from a developed country might die could have a massive blowback. So I think they will just tweak the budget of something else later when everyone else has forgotten in order to pay for the search. But think about the police departments in places like Los Angeles, Seattle, Baltimore, and Chicago. They quietly pay settlements of tens of millions of dollars per year for police misconduct of all kinds. Somehow these costs are buried in opaque sections of the budget that no one is willing to disclose. It never appears as a line item. It would take multiple annual freedom of information act applications to start to get to the bottom of what’s happening there.

chizhik-pyzhik 4y ago

Mirror: https://web.archive.org/web/20210309005828/https://www.otherhand.org/home-page/search-and-rescue/the-hunt-for-the-death-valley-germans/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210309005828/https://www.other...

out-of-ideas 4y ago

asks for a user+password now https://archive.is/TwoKO https://archive.is/TwoKO

LatteLazy 4y ago

I feel like there is a strand in the human brain that cannot deal with not knowing things or being uncertain. You see this in mysteries like this, but you see the same thing in people's belief that UFOs are aliens, or conspiracy theories or religion. People pick an answer and then adhere to it ABSOLUTELY, being less willing to accept it is uncertain than they are facts like gravity. One example of this is flat earth. But the same "thought structure" occurs with people in political matters or vaccine/climate change denial. Is there a name for this?

dakial1 4y ago

Being a dad with 2 young kids, it kinds of break my heart to read this kind of stories. I wouldn't be moved if this was the story of 2 adults only, but man, bringing kids, who at this age have 100% trust on you, to die like that. Poor souls.