4 ms·

Can you explain how 6.5%/year increases in budget over 12 years is "starving"? Also curious how you square "outperforming" with the worst ever waiting times for

by 0xy 4y ago

Can you explain how 6.5%/year increases in budget over 12 years is "starving"? Also curious how you square "outperforming" with the worst ever waiting times for critical surgeries.

smcl 4y ago
> Can you explain how 6.5%/year increases in budget Yes! It needs more. Glad to have cleared that up. > Also curious how you square "outperforming" ... This is the conclusion of the study in the article you're commenting on
- 0xy 4y ago
  France increased healthcare spending by 0.3%/year between 2010 and 2019. UK is outpacing France's spending increases by 2,066%. How does the UK need over 20x more spending increases than its close neighbor, exactly?
  - daedalus_f 4y ago
    In 2017 (a year for which I have statistics) France spent 25% more per person on healthcare than the UK. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...
    - 0xy 4y ago
      The initial claim was that healthcare was being "starved", I don't think 20x more than their neighbors in spending increases is "starved". Besides, in 2019, the difference was 4% on a per capita basis -- according to World Bank figures. [1] [2] Probably reflecting the massive difference in spending increases. Given the NHS' planned spending increases from now until 2025, it is very likely the UK will overtake France altogether. NHS spending plans to 2025 that are already agreed outpace inflation by 6 billion pounds. [1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?locations=FR https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?locat... [2] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?locations=GB https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?locat...
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
Growing and aging population is the main two. The Financial Times has published stark data showing persistent underinvestment when Conservatives are in power, compared with peer countries.
daedalus_f 4y ago
> In 2017, the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare, which was around the median for members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development: OECD. > of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736). > As a percentage of GDP, UK healthcare spending fell from 9.8% in 2013 to 9.6% in 2017. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... Health care inflation is significantly higher than the retail price index. The population is aging - older people consume far more health resources than younger people.
alexisread 4y ago
I'm fairly sure that half a min of extra searching for stats would have turned up number of patients treated over that 12 year period - up 12% excluding covid, which pushed waiting lists up massively. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/audio-video/key-facts-figures-nhs https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/audio-video/key-facts-figures-n... TBH I think most of the recent spending has been in management, rather than where it actually needs to be, so that doesn't help. As mentioned, outperforming here is a relative benchmark vs the US, as stated in the article.

by 0xy 4y ago

Can you explain how 6.5%/year increases in budget over 12 years is "starving"? Also curious how you square "outperforming" with the worst ever waiting times for critical surgeries.

smcl 4y ago

> Can you explain how 6.5%/year increases in budget Yes! It needs more. Glad to have cleared that up. > Also curious how you square "outperforming" ... This is the conclusion of the study in the article you're commenting on

0xy 4y ago
France increased healthcare spending by 0.3%/year between 2010 and 2019. UK is outpacing France's spending increases by 2,066%. How does the UK need over 20x more spending increases than its close neighbor, exactly?
- daedalus_f 4y ago
  In 2017 (a year for which I have statistics) France spent 25% more per person on healthcare than the UK. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan...
  - 0xy 4y ago
    The initial claim was that healthcare was being "starved", I don't think 20x more than their neighbors in spending increases is "starved". Besides, in 2019, the difference was 4% on a per capita basis -- according to World Bank figures. [1] [2] Probably reflecting the massive difference in spending increases. Given the NHS' planned spending increases from now until 2025, it is very likely the UK will overtake France altogether. NHS spending plans to 2025 that are already agreed outpace inflation by 6 billion pounds. [1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?locations=FR https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?locat... [2] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?locations=GB https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.CHEX.PC.CD?locat...

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

Growing and aging population is the main two. The Financial Times has published stark data showing persistent underinvestment when Conservatives are in power, compared with peer countries.

daedalus_f 4y ago

> In 2017, the UK spent £2,989 per person on healthcare, which was around the median for members of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development: OECD. > of the G7 group of large, developed economies, UK healthcare spending per person was the second-lowest, with the highest spenders being France (£3,737), Germany (£4,432) and the United States (£7,736). > As a percentage of GDP, UK healthcare spending fell from 9.8% in 2013 to 9.6% in 2017. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthcaresystem/articles/howdoesukhealthcarespendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29 https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... Health care inflation is significantly higher than the retail price index. The population is aging - older people consume far more health resources than younger people.

alexisread 4y ago

I'm fairly sure that half a min of extra searching for stats would have turned up number of patients treated over that 12 year period - up 12% excluding covid, which pushed waiting lists up massively. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/audio-video/key-facts-figures-nhs https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/audio-video/key-facts-figures-n... TBH I think most of the recent spending has been in management, rather than where it actually needs to be, so that doesn't help. As mentioned, outperforming here is a relative benchmark vs the US, as stated in the article.