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It's such a complete lie that our current system confers any advantages whatsoever. It's a line trotted out by insurance lobbyists, then politicians, then shitt

It's such a complete lie that our current system confers any advantages whatsoever. It's a line trotted out by insurance lobbyists, then politicians, then shitty news media, and finally by the poor brainless voters themselves. If Americans had any international perspective at all it would be much harder to keep that fiction alive, but Americas generally are completely ignorant of how people live outside the us, and not interested in finding out.

inglor_cz 4y ago
From the international perspective, US is probably closer to the EU than to, say, France or Britain, (both in size and in relative decentralization), and we do not have a common healthcare system in the EU either - plus there seems to be even less support for it than in the US.
jujube3 4y ago
Actually, Americans are ignorant of the outside world, but not in the way that you're painting. They generally think that Europe has socialized single-payer healthcare, which is mostly not true (a few European countries, like the UK, do, but most have an insurance-based system). They also think that most of the world has access to the quality of care that people do in the US (nope). They also think doctors and nurses get paid the same outside the US (far from it.) They think that government healthcare means that there will be nobody to say no to expensive procedures (very untrue: there will always be a bureaucrat scrutinizing how much is spent on a patient). The media promotes all of these myths, with the eventual goal of a complete government takeover of health care. We can add one bonus myth here too: the idea that the US healthcare system leaves people to die if they have no money and no insurance. Nope! If you show up at any emergency room, they cannot refuse treatment. And of course, getting insurance for the poor or lower-middle class is easier than ever due to Obamacare. So while it's far from a perfect system, it's a lot better than the media paints it as. And the government alternatives are not utopian. See https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/02/private-healthcare-boom-two-tier-system-uk https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/02/private-heal...
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  I literally watched a dude die waiting to be seen in an ER in the US. They are absolutely required to treat but nobody said anything about how they prioritize patients when the ER is busy. Some more news for you, you can't waltz into the hospital with any number of chronic or life threatening conditions and expect to get effective treatment. You'll get the bare minimum required to stabilize your condition in the moment then you're out the door. Not sure what you're stanning here.
  - jujube3 4y ago
    I have personally seen the opposite -- a relative came into the hospital with no healthcare (even Obamacare which he was 100% eligible for, but simply forgot to sign up for) and got the best possible healthcare. And eventually got retroactively put on Medicare, so that he didn't have to pay. In any case, people die waiting for service with single-payer healthcare as well. Before you try to reform the system, try to understand how the system actually works rather than just repeating talking points.
    - forgetfreeman 4y ago
      Your anecdote does not disprove the general case. If you walk into a hospital dead broke with no insurance with a chronic but not immediately life-threatening condition you're not getting the same level of care an individual would if they had the ability to pay for ongoing treatment. I've got a couple ER nurses I can rope into the conversation that can confirm that if you'd care to try to continue arguing the point. As far as healthcare reform goes there's nothing particularly complicated about having a multi-billion dollar industry sieve funds that could be better spent on actual healthcare providers. There is also the minor issue of America's medical bankruptcy rates compared against literally every other industrialized nation on the planet, and the small matter of us having both the most expensive (by a wide margin) and one of the least effective healthcare systems of any 1st world country. Again, what the fuck are you stanning over there?
0xy 4y ago
The US has lower wait times and substantially better cancer treatment than most comparison countries, including Canada and the UK. Entire categories of specialist cancer treatment are simply not available in Canada. No advantages whatsoever? That would be a plausible argument if Canadians didn't seek treatment in the US in record numbers, growing by over 20% a year.

inglor_cz 4y ago

From the international perspective, US is probably closer to the EU than to, say, France or Britain, (both in size and in relative decentralization), and we do not have a common healthcare system in the EU either - plus there seems to be even less support for it than in the US.

jujube3 4y ago

Actually, Americans are ignorant of the outside world, but not in the way that you're painting. They generally think that Europe has socialized single-payer healthcare, which is mostly not true (a few European countries, like the UK, do, but most have an insurance-based system). They also think that most of the world has access to the quality of care that people do in the US (nope). They also think doctors and nurses get paid the same outside the US (far from it.) They think that government healthcare means that there will be nobody to say no to expensive procedures (very untrue: there will always be a bureaucrat scrutinizing how much is spent on a patient). The media promotes all of these myths, with the eventual goal of a complete government takeover of health care. We can add one bonus myth here too: the idea that the US healthcare system leaves people to die if they have no money and no insurance. Nope! If you show up at any emergency room, they cannot refuse treatment. And of course, getting insurance for the poor or lower-middle class is easier than ever due to Obamacare. So while it's far from a perfect system, it's a lot better than the media paints it as. And the government alternatives are not utopian. See https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/02/private-healthcare-boom-two-tier-system-uk https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/02/private-heal...

forgetfreeman 4y ago
I literally watched a dude die waiting to be seen in an ER in the US. They are absolutely required to treat but nobody said anything about how they prioritize patients when the ER is busy. Some more news for you, you can't waltz into the hospital with any number of chronic or life threatening conditions and expect to get effective treatment. You'll get the bare minimum required to stabilize your condition in the moment then you're out the door. Not sure what you're stanning here.
- jujube3 4y ago
  I have personally seen the opposite -- a relative came into the hospital with no healthcare (even Obamacare which he was 100% eligible for, but simply forgot to sign up for) and got the best possible healthcare. And eventually got retroactively put on Medicare, so that he didn't have to pay. In any case, people die waiting for service with single-payer healthcare as well. Before you try to reform the system, try to understand how the system actually works rather than just repeating talking points.
  - forgetfreeman 4y ago
    Your anecdote does not disprove the general case. If you walk into a hospital dead broke with no insurance with a chronic but not immediately life-threatening condition you're not getting the same level of care an individual would if they had the ability to pay for ongoing treatment. I've got a couple ER nurses I can rope into the conversation that can confirm that if you'd care to try to continue arguing the point. As far as healthcare reform goes there's nothing particularly complicated about having a multi-billion dollar industry sieve funds that could be better spent on actual healthcare providers. There is also the minor issue of America's medical bankruptcy rates compared against literally every other industrialized nation on the planet, and the small matter of us having both the most expensive (by a wide margin) and one of the least effective healthcare systems of any 1st world country. Again, what the fuck are you stanning over there?

0xy 4y ago

The US has lower wait times and substantially better cancer treatment than most comparison countries, including Canada and the UK. Entire categories of specialist cancer treatment are simply not available in Canada. No advantages whatsoever? That would be a plausible argument if Canadians didn't seek treatment in the US in record numbers, growing by over 20% a year.