4 ms·

> Who in the hell is against it? Roughly half the country is against it! And ironically, it's often because they want "choice" in their medical care, despite

> Who in the hell is against it? Roughly half the country is against it! And ironically, it's often because they want "choice" in their medical care, despite the fact that health insurance is tied to your employment and you barely have any choices under your control anyway -- you go with the clinic or hospital that takes your plan, and you go with the doctor that's available.

silisili 4y ago
This is an extremely popular liberal talking point. I do not believe it to be true. The article linked below has it at 60/40. But that's just a simple yes/no survey. When you probe the 40, they are mostly for it too, just with extreme reservations. Talk to some. It's definitely not an 'I got mine, let everyone else die' as is painted. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3826215-57-percent-support-federal-government-ensuring-universal-health-care-survey/ https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3826215-57-percent-sup...
- forgetfreeman 4y ago
  You don't believe it to be true based on what? The fact that it's an extremely popular liberal talking point, or some actual data?
  - silisili 4y ago
    The actual data is closer to 1/3 against than 1/2. Nothing more is usually collected than that vote. I don't believe, even given revised data above, that even 1/3 are against it. I'd estimate less than 1/5 are against it no matter what. The remainder has doubts and conditions, a given considering how awful government projects usually go. If I thought healthcare would be run like the DMV, I'd vote against it too.
    - forgetfreeman 4y ago
      How awful which government projects go? Yeah the DMV is a thing, but so is NOAA and NASA.
      - silisili 4y ago
        Those are good orgs, but not really customer facing ones. Of those people interact with, I can't think of one people actually like. Social Security offices come to mind. And apparently the IRS is impossible to get ahold of, though luckily I've never need to.
        forgetfreeman 4y ago
        I mean why would you want to?
trilbyglens 4y ago
It's such a complete lie that our current system confers any advantages whatsoever. It's a line trotted out by insurance lobbyists, then politicians, then shitty news media, and finally by the poor brainless voters themselves. If Americans had any international perspective at all it would be much harder to keep that fiction alive, but Americas generally are completely ignorant of how people live outside the us, and not interested in finding out.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  From the international perspective, US is probably closer to the EU than to, say, France or Britain, (both in size and in relative decentralization), and we do not have a common healthcare system in the EU either - plus there seems to be even less support for it than in the US.
- jujube3 4y ago
  Actually, Americans are ignorant of the outside world, but not in the way that you're painting. They generally think that Europe has socialized single-payer healthcare, which is mostly not true (a few European countries, like the UK, do, but most have an insurance-based system). They also think that most of the world has access to the quality of care that people do in the US (nope). They also think doctors and nurses get paid the same outside the US (far from it.) They think that government healthcare means that there will be nobody to say no to expensive procedures (very untrue: there will always be a bureaucrat scrutinizing how much is spent on a patient). The media promotes all of these myths, with the eventual goal of a complete government takeover of health care. We can add one bonus myth here too: the idea that the US healthcare system leaves people to die if they have no money and no insurance. Nope! If you show up at any emergency room, they cannot refuse treatment. And of course, getting insurance for the poor or lower-middle class is easier than ever due to Obamacare. So while it's far from a perfect system, it's a lot better than the media paints it as. And the government alternatives are not utopian. See https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/02/private-healthcare-boom-two-tier-system-uk https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/02/private-heal...
  - forgetfreeman 4y ago

silisili 4y ago

This is an extremely popular liberal talking point. I do not believe it to be true. The article linked below has it at 60/40. But that's just a simple yes/no survey. When you probe the 40, they are mostly for it too, just with extreme reservations. Talk to some. It's definitely not an 'I got mine, let everyone else die' as is painted. https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3826215-57-percent-support-federal-government-ensuring-universal-health-care-survey/ https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/3826215-57-percent-sup...

forgetfreeman 4y ago
You don't believe it to be true based on what? The fact that it's an extremely popular liberal talking point, or some actual data?
- silisili 4y ago
  The actual data is closer to 1/3 against than 1/2. Nothing more is usually collected than that vote. I don't believe, even given revised data above, that even 1/3 are against it. I'd estimate less than 1/5 are against it no matter what. The remainder has doubts and conditions, a given considering how awful government projects usually go. If I thought healthcare would be run like the DMV, I'd vote against it too.
  - forgetfreeman 4y ago
    How awful which government projects go? Yeah the DMV is a thing, but so is NOAA and NASA.
    - silisili 4y ago
      Those are good orgs, but not really customer facing ones. Of those people interact with, I can't think of one people actually like. Social Security offices come to mind. And apparently the IRS is impossible to get ahold of, though luckily I've never need to.
      - forgetfreeman 4y ago
        I mean why would you want to?

trilbyglens 4y ago

It's such a complete lie that our current system confers any advantages whatsoever. It's a line trotted out by insurance lobbyists, then politicians, then shitty news media, and finally by the poor brainless voters themselves. If Americans had any international perspective at all it would be much harder to keep that fiction alive, but Americas generally are completely ignorant of how people live outside the us, and not interested in finding out.

inglor_cz 4y ago
From the international perspective, US is probably closer to the EU than to, say, France or Britain, (both in size and in relative decentralization), and we do not have a common healthcare system in the EU either - plus there seems to be even less support for it than in the US.
jujube3 4y ago
Actually, Americans are ignorant of the outside world, but not in the way that you're painting. They generally think that Europe has socialized single-payer healthcare, which is mostly not true (a few European countries, like the UK, do, but most have an insurance-based system). They also think that most of the world has access to the quality of care that people do in the US (nope). They also think doctors and nurses get paid the same outside the US (far from it.) They think that government healthcare means that there will be nobody to say no to expensive procedures (very untrue: there will always be a bureaucrat scrutinizing how much is spent on a patient). The media promotes all of these myths, with the eventual goal of a complete government takeover of health care. We can add one bonus myth here too: the idea that the US healthcare system leaves people to die if they have no money and no insurance. Nope! If you show up at any emergency room, they cannot refuse treatment. And of course, getting insurance for the poor or lower-middle class is easier than ever due to Obamacare. So while it's far from a perfect system, it's a lot better than the media paints it as. And the government alternatives are not utopian. See https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/02/private-healthcare-boom-two-tier-system-uk https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/mar/02/private-heal...
- forgetfreeman 4y ago