3 ms·

> Yes good, because white and asian folks absolutely do have more opportunities than other racial groups, and that’s borne out over and over again, whenever peo

by seneca 4y ago

> Yes good, because white and asian folks absolutely do have more opportunities than other racial groups, and that’s borne out over and over again, whenever people look into these kinds of things. If you look at academic outcomes, black, hispanic, native american groups are still substantially further behind than white and asian groups. Group A outperforming Group B does not mean that Group A is being given unfair opportunities. It certainly doesn't justify intentionally, and illegally, giving Group B undeserved opportunities to the detriment of Group A.

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
It absolutely does mean that group A is being given more opportunities than group B when you realize there is no difference biologically between group A and group B.
- seneca 4y ago
  Yes, in a world where those two groups have the exact same make up, it would mean that. That's not true at all in this context. There are differences between racial groups. No one is shocked and appalled that Jewish people are hugely over represented as Nobel prize winners, or that black people are wildly over represented in professional sports. It's difficult to disentangle what is just cultural impact, but they're patterns that a child could identify. If you work from a false premise, you end up with false results. The motivation behind the desire to believe that everyone is equally capable at everything is a good one, and individuals should be treated as if they have equal potential regardless of their immutable characteristics. It would be great if all groups were great at everything. If it were possible, I would make it so. However, falling prey to treating "ought" as "is" leads to pathological behaviors, which is exactly what is happening to the well-intentioned members of this movement.
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    > There are differences between racial groups. This is not true, genetically, and if you believe there is, that's a real problem for you. As for the differences in these communities as a result of differing treatment by others, you're damn right there are differences, and to the degree that those differences are caused by discrimination and hatred (and it's a high degree), that's exactly what we're trying to slowly improve. The problem with your egalitarian vision is that not everyone starts out on the same level, and if you ignore the systemic ways people are held back, you ruin any shot you might have at getting the end goal you seem to want, which seems to be "may the best person win". We all want that end result, but until you deal with reality, that's never going to happen.
    - bakugo 4y ago
      > if you ignore the systemic ways people are held back You still haven't explained how any of these people are being held back, though.
      - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        I did, in another comment.
- goatlover 4y ago
  But there are cultural differences, which help explain why Asians overachieve academically.
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    And why do those cultural differences exist? What bonds "black people" together in American culture, despite coming from a whole host of diverse places that otherwise share little to no culture amongst one another?

by seneca 4y ago

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago

It absolutely does mean that group A is being given more opportunities than group B when you realize there is no difference biologically between group A and group B.

seneca 4y ago
Yes, in a world where those two groups have the exact same make up, it would mean that. That's not true at all in this context. There are differences between racial groups. No one is shocked and appalled that Jewish people are hugely over represented as Nobel prize winners, or that black people are wildly over represented in professional sports. It's difficult to disentangle what is just cultural impact, but they're patterns that a child could identify. If you work from a false premise, you end up with false results. The motivation behind the desire to believe that everyone is equally capable at everything is a good one, and individuals should be treated as if they have equal potential regardless of their immutable characteristics. It would be great if all groups were great at everything. If it were possible, I would make it so. However, falling prey to treating "ought" as "is" leads to pathological behaviors, which is exactly what is happening to the well-intentioned members of this movement.
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  > There are differences between racial groups. This is not true, genetically, and if you believe there is, that's a real problem for you. As for the differences in these communities as a result of differing treatment by others, you're damn right there are differences, and to the degree that those differences are caused by discrimination and hatred (and it's a high degree), that's exactly what we're trying to slowly improve. The problem with your egalitarian vision is that not everyone starts out on the same level, and if you ignore the systemic ways people are held back, you ruin any shot you might have at getting the end goal you seem to want, which seems to be "may the best person win". We all want that end result, but until you deal with reality, that's never going to happen.
  - bakugo 4y ago
    > if you ignore the systemic ways people are held back You still haven't explained how any of these people are being held back, though.
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      I did, in another comment.
goatlover 4y ago
But there are cultural differences, which help explain why Asians overachieve academically.
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  And why do those cultural differences exist? What bonds "black people" together in American culture, despite coming from a whole host of diverse places that otherwise share little to no culture amongst one another?