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Like you, I appreciated his comment. It was honest, and I have been there. We are in the shaking-out phase of this change. The bigger problem is management i

Like you, I appreciated his comment. It was honest, and I have been there. We are in the shaking-out phase of this change. The bigger problem is management isn't across-the-board good at determining productivity in-person or remote. Good managers are rare, and staring over someone's shoulder to make sure the work is getting done correctly is harder in remote work. The systems to provide this checking and oversight are still maturing - I don't mean employee surveillance. I've been at the other end of the spectrum where I don't get work done in the office. I get involved in crosstalk between coworkers too much. We go to far too many pointless meetings. Everyone wants to share about their family while I'm working. I feel over-socialized and it affects my work and my ability to disconnect at the end of my day. This is a job. I get paid money for the work I do. I should not feel indebted to people who parody themselves as my friends (coworkers) who need this last-minute thing done by me at the end of the day. I'm off the clock and I want to disconnect. How many times have I worked through lunch? How many times have people called my personal number for non-emergency needs? The workplace infringes on my work-life balance, and remote work gave a large part of that back to me. If we care about both groups of people (those over-socialized, and those isolated), we should give the worker the option. A good supervisor should be learning how to engage with the employee in the way they wish to communicate, as long as the work is getting done.

jjav 4y ago
> I've been at the other end of the spectrum where I don't get work done in the office. Open offices are what destroyed the experience of going to work. When I had a private office (the first 17 years of my career) I loved going to the office. I had all the silence and privacy to get work done, but at the same time I could step out of the office 2-3 times a day and hang out with the team, chitchat about work, projects, life, hobbies and have a real human connection. When it was time to get back to work, could go back into the private office. But open herd rooms these days broke everything. No concentration, no privacy, no in-the-zone ever, just forcefully being distracted all day. So now I just hate all these people around me making noise all day. Thankfully the pandemic put an end to that so I can concentrate on work away from the office. But I miss the human connection we had then everyone had private offices. I'd go back to an office enthusiastically 5 days a week if I had a private office. But if you force me into an open office, I will never again want to go in person.
- georgemcbay 4y ago
  As a 49-year old software developer that had the real-office experience early in my career: same. And the crazy thing is some companies are pushing for even worse than open-office plans and have moved on to "hot desking", all the same problems of an open office except you also don't even have your own desk space, just nomad your ass around the office and hope you find a spot to slap your laptop down. The fact that some companies have mandated return to office and also have adopted a system where you literally have no space of your own at said office just seems insane to me and makes me wonder when the bunk capsule style hot desking is coming. Just think of the office rent savings if we stack them 2 or 3 high! Nevermind the fact that the company thrived for 2+ years with almost nobody in the office at all.
- bananaowl 4y ago
  I listed private office as a requirement for my current job. Now I'm in the office almost every day. At one point in time there were talks of sharing the space. I told them I had other options. The talks died. Don't only negotiate on salary.
- happymellon 4y ago
  I had an office at my first position that I shared with one other person, and after that a cube, and that was mostly fine as it removed the majority of the noise. I don't need necessarily a personal office. But I need them to be reasonable. A closed off space for just the 6 folks in the team would be fine, and a separate small space for someone to go to for a call or a 1:1.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  I didn't put this together until I read your comment, but I resonate strongly with what you say here. it's been so long since I had an actual office that I had forgotten and, looking at it through this lens, it's true: what I like about working at home isn't so much the working at home part, but that I now have an office.

jjav 4y ago

> I've been at the other end of the spectrum where I don't get work done in the office. Open offices are what destroyed the experience of going to work. When I had a private office (the first 17 years of my career) I loved going to the office. I had all the silence and privacy to get work done, but at the same time I could step out of the office 2-3 times a day and hang out with the team, chitchat about work, projects, life, hobbies and have a real human connection. When it was time to get back to work, could go back into the private office. But open herd rooms these days broke everything. No concentration, no privacy, no in-the-zone ever, just forcefully being distracted all day. So now I just hate all these people around me making noise all day. Thankfully the pandemic put an end to that so I can concentrate on work away from the office. But I miss the human connection we had then everyone had private offices. I'd go back to an office enthusiastically 5 days a week if I had a private office. But if you force me into an open office, I will never again want to go in person.

georgemcbay 4y ago
As a 49-year old software developer that had the real-office experience early in my career: same. And the crazy thing is some companies are pushing for even worse than open-office plans and have moved on to "hot desking", all the same problems of an open office except you also don't even have your own desk space, just nomad your ass around the office and hope you find a spot to slap your laptop down. The fact that some companies have mandated return to office and also have adopted a system where you literally have no space of your own at said office just seems insane to me and makes me wonder when the bunk capsule style hot desking is coming. Just think of the office rent savings if we stack them 2 or 3 high! Nevermind the fact that the company thrived for 2+ years with almost nobody in the office at all.
bananaowl 4y ago
I listed private office as a requirement for my current job. Now I'm in the office almost every day. At one point in time there were talks of sharing the space. I told them I had other options. The talks died. Don't only negotiate on salary.
happymellon 4y ago
I had an office at my first position that I shared with one other person, and after that a cube, and that was mostly fine as it removed the majority of the noise. I don't need necessarily a personal office. But I need them to be reasonable. A closed off space for just the 6 folks in the team would be fine, and a separate small space for someone to go to for a call or a 1:1.
JohnFen 4y ago
I didn't put this together until I read your comment, but I resonate strongly with what you say here. it's been so long since I had an actual office that I had forgotten and, looking at it through this lens, it's true: what I like about working at home isn't so much the working at home part, but that I now have an office.