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I'm unfamiliar with US colleges, but could this just be a scheme to allow wealthy or well connected people to get into positions without the grades part? It wou

I'm unfamiliar with US colleges, but could this just be a scheme to allow wealthy or well connected people to get into positions without the grades part? It would otherwise be pretty easy to show unjust discrimination if it were only grades being considered, but an applicant's 'diversity score' could mean anything, and is arbitrary on purpose to justify approving just about anybody.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
This is for faculty positions, which are employment. Ironically, that has stricter non-descrimination provisions than school admissions.
- Manuel_D 4y ago
  Not in public California universities. Racial discrimination has been banned in California public university since Proposition 209 was passed in 1996.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Which democrats tried to repeal in 2020.
    - judge2020 4y ago
      Because it was used to achieve diversity goals, and 209 prevents that. Like the point made here[0], it's de-facto reparations by advantaging those who were/have been affected by lost generational wealth (unequal schools and racist HOA & loan policies). Whether or not this is the right way to go about it is indeed a split issue evidenced by the 57/43 2020 vote and 55/45 vote that passed the original 96 proposition. The proposition you failed to link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34673427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34673427
      - xyzzyz 4y ago
        > Like the point made here[0], it's de-facto reparations by advantaging those who were/have been affected by lost generational wealth (unequal schools and racist HOA & loan policies). Does anyone actually check whether recipients of these de facto reparation actually have been affected by any of that? As far as I can tell, nobody does, because nobody cares, it’s literally just based on the skin color.
        judge2020 4y ago
        The loss in generational wealth is effectively based on skin color. For example, in the 1930's, the Home Owner's Loan Corp. mapped out and literally redlined black areas, making it harder for homes to be bought and sold without paying extra in interest[0]. From Wikipedia[1]: > The effects of redlining, as noted in HOLC maps, endures to the present time. A study released in 2018 found that 74 percent of neighborhoods that HOLC graded as high-risk or "hazardous" are low-to-moderate income neighborhoods today, while 64 percent of the neighborhoods graded "hazardous" are minority neighborhoods today. “It’s as if some of these places have been trapped in the past, locking neighborhoods into concentrated poverty,” said Jason Richardson, director of research at the NCRC, a consumer advocacy group. The linked page[0] goes into more detail about how disastrous this was and the impact on wealth it has to this day. Considering how neighborhoods were even less integrated then than they are now, it's safe to say the correlation of redlining to skin color was very high. 0: https://www.investopedia.com/the-history-of-lending-discrimination-5076948#toc-home-owners-loan-corp-holc https://www.investopedia.com/the-history-of-lending-discrimi... 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Owners%27_Loan_Corporation#Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Owners%27_Loan_Corporatio...
        SamReidHughes 4y ago
        What has a higher median income: African-Americans, or Poland?
        fakethenews2022 4y ago
        Except that some of the ethnic groups (Asian Americans) that are being discriminated against by this policy were also discriminated against by redlining back then.
  - ucprof 4y ago
    Prop 209 bans racial discrimination, but UC does it in hiring anyway through a number of means. For example, although Prop 209 bans taking race into account in the hiring decision, it doesn't ban taking it into account in earlier phases, like preparation of shortlists. If a department's shortlist for hiring a professor is found to have a bad proportion of under-represented minorities, the department can be punished by informal means such as being denied future hires. There are several other tricks that the administration does to promote race-based hiring and admissions, with the overall effect that Prop 209 is nullified through policies that are never put into writing.
  - fche 4y ago
    > Racial discrimination has been banned in California someone should send a memo to remind countless california institutions who nevertheless persist
romwell 4y ago
>I'm unfamiliar with US colleges, but could this just be a scheme to allow wealthy or well connected people to get into positions without the grades part? The "grades part"? We are talking about academic positions here, not student applications.
Manuel_D 4y ago
Agreed, much like the "personality score" that Harvard notoriously used to the detriment of Asian applicants. It could very well also be that the children of wealthy donors just happen to have good personalities.

pclmulqdq 4y ago

This is for faculty positions, which are employment. Ironically, that has stricter non-descrimination provisions than school admissions.

Manuel_D 4y ago
Not in public California universities. Racial discrimination has been banned in California public university since Proposition 209 was passed in 1996.
- rayiner 4y ago
  Which democrats tried to repeal in 2020.
  - judge2020 4y ago
    Because it was used to achieve diversity goals, and 209 prevents that. Like the point made here[0], it's de-facto reparations by advantaging those who were/have been affected by lost generational wealth (unequal schools and racist HOA & loan policies). Whether or not this is the right way to go about it is indeed a split issue evidenced by the 57/43 2020 vote and 55/45 vote that passed the original 96 proposition. The proposition you failed to link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_California_Proposition_16 0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34673427 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34673427
    - xyzzyz 4y ago
      > Like the point made here[0], it's de-facto reparations by advantaging those who were/have been affected by lost generational wealth (unequal schools and racist HOA & loan policies). Does anyone actually check whether recipients of these de facto reparation actually have been affected by any of that? As far as I can tell, nobody does, because nobody cares, it’s literally just based on the skin color.
      - judge2020 4y ago
        The loss in generational wealth is effectively based on skin color. For example, in the 1930's, the Home Owner's Loan Corp. mapped out and literally redlined black areas, making it harder for homes to be bought and sold without paying extra in interest[0]. From Wikipedia[1]: > The effects of redlining, as noted in HOLC maps, endures to the present time. A study released in 2018 found that 74 percent of neighborhoods that HOLC graded as high-risk or "hazardous" are low-to-moderate income neighborhoods today, while 64 percent of the neighborhoods graded "hazardous" are minority neighborhoods today. “It’s as if some of these places have been trapped in the past, locking neighborhoods into concentrated poverty,” said Jason Richardson, director of research at the NCRC, a consumer advocacy group. The linked page[0] goes into more detail about how disastrous this was and the impact on wealth it has to this day. Considering how neighborhoods were even less integrated then than they are now, it's safe to say the correlation of redlining to skin color was very high. 0: https://www.investopedia.com/the-history-of-lending-discrimination-5076948#toc-home-owners-loan-corp-holc https://www.investopedia.com/the-history-of-lending-discrimi... 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Owners%27_Loan_Corporation#Redlining https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Owners%27_Loan_Corporatio...
        SamReidHughes 4y ago
        What has a higher median income: African-Americans, or Poland?
        fakethenews2022 4y ago
        Except that some of the ethnic groups (Asian Americans) that are being discriminated against by this policy were also discriminated against by redlining back then.
- ucprof 4y ago
  Prop 209 bans racial discrimination, but UC does it in hiring anyway through a number of means. For example, although Prop 209 bans taking race into account in the hiring decision, it doesn't ban taking it into account in earlier phases, like preparation of shortlists. If a department's shortlist for hiring a professor is found to have a bad proportion of under-represented minorities, the department can be punished by informal means such as being denied future hires. There are several other tricks that the administration does to promote race-based hiring and admissions, with the overall effect that Prop 209 is nullified through policies that are never put into writing.
- fche 4y ago
  > Racial discrimination has been banned in California someone should send a memo to remind countless california institutions who nevertheless persist

romwell 4y ago

>I'm unfamiliar with US colleges, but could this just be a scheme to allow wealthy or well connected people to get into positions without the grades part? The "grades part"? We are talking about academic positions here, not student applications.

Manuel_D 4y ago

Agreed, much like the "personality score" that Harvard notoriously used to the detriment of Asian applicants. It could very well also be that the children of wealthy donors just happen to have good personalities.