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> Objects demonstrating extreme capabilities routinely fly over our military facilities and training ranges. We don’t know what they are, and we are unable to m

by driggs 4y ago

> Objects demonstrating extreme capabilities routinely fly over our military facilities and training ranges. We don’t know what they are, and we are unable to mitigate their presence. Occams Razor suggests that if these objects appear almost exclusively over US military facilities and US military training ranges, they're most likely operated by the US military. (Sorry to the Navy pilot whose security clearance is too low to be in on the secret.)

themanmaran 4y ago
Or they're observed over military facilities because that's the only location with a rigorous surveillance system.
- Ancalagon 4y ago
  Or that it’s the point of greatest interest for some adversary (alien or terrestrial )
- flatiron 4y ago
  Or from foreign entities wondering what’s up with our military facilities.
  - KRAKRISMOTT 4y ago
    The calculus would be very strange because adversaries run the risk of losing the mint if it's shot down.
    - godelski 4y ago
      What mint? A drone? A balloon? These are relatively common for surveillance devices and can be quite small and can self destruct. Even the US does this, just isn't as flashy.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  Or because they're sensor artifacts on military systems and those systems tend to be flown over military facilities.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    > I have seen for myself on radar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(radar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(radar) Radar and infrared aren't infallible. The story of the pilot who saw something with his own peepers has my attention but I don't trust what they've only "seen" on instruments.
- treis 4y ago
  Have any NATO countries reported these?
  - someweirdperson 4y ago
    The military budget of the rest of NATO combined is much smaller than that of the US. ... Why would aliens be interested?
    - treis 4y ago
      They still build some stuff and if aliens have come all this way why not check out the whole planet?
      - oneoff786 4y ago
        No no. The aliens are only interested in the largest military budget obviously. Because the US can definitely stand against a FTL capable alien civ
    - DSingularity 4y ago
      My guess is if there was aliens they would be so totally disinterested in us they wouldn’t even distinguish between military and civilian. Just zipping around taking their measurements of the mineral deposits.
      - GenerocUsername 4y ago
        You have nothing to back that up and your gut goes against the closest thing we have to evidence... If I was an alien race sending probes far and wide I would absolutely focus my attention on hotspots of military presence rather than the relatively benign nature and civilian existence.
        hgsgm 4y ago
        What does an alien military look like?
- margalabargala 4y ago
  If they were anywhere close to evenly distributed across the US or the globe, one would expect plenty of eyewitness data from commercial airline passengers. That this phenomenon appears specific to personnel and locations related to US military bases seems like an important piece of data.
  - mikrotikker 4y ago
    There are some historical reports floating about from when the soviets and US were working together after WW2 or something and shared information on these events.
gfodor 4y ago
A much simpler explanation than these are objects operated by the US military is that there is a selection bias with public awareness and media reporting on reports regarding the US military. I can think of at least a dozen plausible explanations as to why such selection bias would exist.
ls-lah_33 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul#Roswell_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul#Roswell_incident
doodlebugging 4y ago
I'll take the other side of this argument since Occams Razor may not be the tool for the job of understanding or characterizing these phenomena. Since there are numerous reports spanning decades and even dating to the 19th century, before manned flight, and these reports come from all over the globe and the descriptions involve similar events and very similar observations between widely spaced events then it follows that these "UAPs" are not all likely to be related to a project operated by the US military. I keep an open mind about everything that I don't understand until I have the data needed to form an opinion. I am not convinced that decades of reports from educated and uneducated people living in widely separated regions that all describe similar situations can all be related to secret operations carried out by one nation's military. I have a hard time branding all these people as delusional or as liars when I have never met them. I am also not qualified to assign any of this to any category except "unexplained and interesting enough to study".
- flangola7 4y ago
  What UFO reports predate the invention of flight?
  - operatingthetan 4y ago
    Start from the top of the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reported_UFO_sightings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reported_UFO_sightings
- runesofdoom 4y ago
  >Since there are numerous reports spanning decades and even dating to the 19th century, before manned flight, Manned flight dates to 1783, and engine-powered flight to 1851. Did you mean heavier-than-air flight?
  - doodlebugging 4y ago
    Yes. Heavier than air flight. Thanks for that correction. Basically any report before Kitty Hawk of a vehicle flying under its own power through the air that was witnessed by more than one person. There are several on record. It's a long interesting history that likely will never be explained to anyone's satisfaction since some of the reports from the late 19th century described airships that were operating low enough that observers could plainly see people through the windows of the airship. It seems to me that large, multi-passenger airships would've been loudly announced and advertised by those who built them since people even then were inclined to line up shouting "take my money" for the opportunity to be one of the first to have a ride.
TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago
Yeah - also, if something can travel light years and have no major signs of atmospheric entry and exit then they have definitely mastered cloaking. The f35B is pretty close already. There's way to many holes in the 'Alien Theory', to many technological absurdities. If these's truly are aliens, then they are the steam punk kind with awkward technological leaps. The easy explaination is they are advanced military craft. Northrop Grumman built the B-2 in the late 80's and that already looks like a UFO to me. The US doesn't even publish it's full TS budget. The unclassiified spend on the f35 is almost $400B. Imagine what else the US been cooking up with it's unlimited checkbook and army of engineers at the big defense contractors.
- godelski 4y ago
  > if something can travel light years And for... decades. Even many times the speed of light requires the ship to travel decades (from the perspective of Earth or their home planet). I definitely buy the US stealth tech. You dogfood your stealth technology with your own systems and own people. Unlikely to fool the enemy if you can't fool yourself. But I do think there are also likely foreign surveillance systems. These could be drones or even balloons (probably smaller than the one that made the news). Combine these two things (along with glitches, optical illusions, and just random shit falling from the sky) and it isn't surprising you see these events.
- naasking 4y ago
  > The easy explaination is they are advanced military craft. That's not easy at all given the alleged capabilities of these objects tracked across multiple sensor systems. An easier explanation is actually some kind of active sensor spoofing.
  - mikrotikker 4y ago
    But that would also infer some kind of parapsychology effects to make the pilots see things. Or maybe a better version of the Havana syndrome gun?
    - 4y ago
hackernewds 4y ago
One would imagine if someone in the 90s saw a Blackbird aircraft, would assume it's an unidentified body. Yet it is just not unclassified. Imagine the tech the RAF has now that will be unveiled in 20 years

by driggs 4y ago

themanmaran 4y ago

Or they're observed over military facilities because that's the only location with a rigorous surveillance system.

Ancalagon 4y ago
Or that it’s the point of greatest interest for some adversary (alien or terrestrial )
flatiron 4y ago
Or from foreign entities wondering what’s up with our military facilities.
- KRAKRISMOTT 4y ago
  The calculus would be very strange because adversaries run the risk of losing the mint if it's shot down.
  - godelski 4y ago
    What mint? A drone? A balloon? These are relatively common for surveillance devices and can be quite small and can self destruct. Even the US does this, just isn't as flashy.
lamontcg 4y ago
Or because they're sensor artifacts on military systems and those systems tend to be flown over military facilities.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  > I have seen for myself on radar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(radar) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clutter_(radar) Radar and infrared aren't infallible. The story of the pilot who saw something with his own peepers has my attention but I don't trust what they've only "seen" on instruments.
treis 4y ago
Have any NATO countries reported these?
- someweirdperson 4y ago
  The military budget of the rest of NATO combined is much smaller than that of the US. ... Why would aliens be interested?
  - treis 4y ago
    They still build some stuff and if aliens have come all this way why not check out the whole planet?
    - oneoff786 4y ago
      No no. The aliens are only interested in the largest military budget obviously. Because the US can definitely stand against a FTL capable alien civ
  - DSingularity 4y ago
    My guess is if there was aliens they would be so totally disinterested in us they wouldn’t even distinguish between military and civilian. Just zipping around taking their measurements of the mineral deposits.
    - GenerocUsername 4y ago
      You have nothing to back that up and your gut goes against the closest thing we have to evidence... If I was an alien race sending probes far and wide I would absolutely focus my attention on hotspots of military presence rather than the relatively benign nature and civilian existence.
      - hgsgm 4y ago
        What does an alien military look like?
margalabargala 4y ago
If they were anywhere close to evenly distributed across the US or the globe, one would expect plenty of eyewitness data from commercial airline passengers. That this phenomenon appears specific to personnel and locations related to US military bases seems like an important piece of data.
- mikrotikker 4y ago
  There are some historical reports floating about from when the soviets and US were working together after WW2 or something and shared information on these events.

gfodor 4y ago

A much simpler explanation than these are objects operated by the US military is that there is a selection bias with public awareness and media reporting on reports regarding the US military. I can think of at least a dozen plausible explanations as to why such selection bias would exist.

ls-lah_33 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul#Roswell_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Mogul#Roswell_incident

doodlebugging 4y ago

I'll take the other side of this argument since Occams Razor may not be the tool for the job of understanding or characterizing these phenomena. Since there are numerous reports spanning decades and even dating to the 19th century, before manned flight, and these reports come from all over the globe and the descriptions involve similar events and very similar observations between widely spaced events then it follows that these "UAPs" are not all likely to be related to a project operated by the US military. I keep an open mind about everything that I don't understand until I have the data needed to form an opinion. I am not convinced that decades of reports from educated and uneducated people living in widely separated regions that all describe similar situations can all be related to secret operations carried out by one nation's military. I have a hard time branding all these people as delusional or as liars when I have never met them. I am also not qualified to assign any of this to any category except "unexplained and interesting enough to study".

flangola7 4y ago
What UFO reports predate the invention of flight?
- operatingthetan 4y ago
  Start from the top of the list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reported_UFO_sightings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reported_UFO_sightings
runesofdoom 4y ago
>Since there are numerous reports spanning decades and even dating to the 19th century, before manned flight, Manned flight dates to 1783, and engine-powered flight to 1851. Did you mean heavier-than-air flight?
- doodlebugging 4y ago
  Yes. Heavier than air flight. Thanks for that correction. Basically any report before Kitty Hawk of a vehicle flying under its own power through the air that was witnessed by more than one person. There are several on record. It's a long interesting history that likely will never be explained to anyone's satisfaction since some of the reports from the late 19th century described airships that were operating low enough that observers could plainly see people through the windows of the airship. It seems to me that large, multi-passenger airships would've been loudly announced and advertised by those who built them since people even then were inclined to line up shouting "take my money" for the opportunity to be one of the first to have a ride.

TrapLord_Rhodo 4y ago

Yeah - also, if something can travel light years and have no major signs of atmospheric entry and exit then they have definitely mastered cloaking. The f35B is pretty close already. There's way to many holes in the 'Alien Theory', to many technological absurdities. If these's truly are aliens, then they are the steam punk kind with awkward technological leaps. The easy explaination is they are advanced military craft. Northrop Grumman built the B-2 in the late 80's and that already looks like a UFO to me. The US doesn't even publish it's full TS budget. The unclassiified spend on the f35 is almost $400B. Imagine what else the US been cooking up with it's unlimited checkbook and army of engineers at the big defense contractors.

godelski 4y ago
> if something can travel light years And for... decades. Even many times the speed of light requires the ship to travel decades (from the perspective of Earth or their home planet). I definitely buy the US stealth tech. You dogfood your stealth technology with your own systems and own people. Unlikely to fool the enemy if you can't fool yourself. But I do think there are also likely foreign surveillance systems. These could be drones or even balloons (probably smaller than the one that made the news). Combine these two things (along with glitches, optical illusions, and just random shit falling from the sky) and it isn't surprising you see these events.
naasking 4y ago
> The easy explaination is they are advanced military craft. That's not easy at all given the alleged capabilities of these objects tracked across multiple sensor systems. An easier explanation is actually some kind of active sensor spoofing.
- mikrotikker 4y ago
  But that would also infer some kind of parapsychology effects to make the pilots see things. Or maybe a better version of the Havana syndrome gun?
  - 4y ago

hackernewds 4y ago

One would imagine if someone in the 90s saw a Blackbird aircraft, would assume it's an unidentified body. Yet it is just not unclassified. Imagine the tech the RAF has now that will be unveiled in 20 years