4 ms·

Ask them if they want a lesson first. Not every junior wants their superiors lecturing them.

tremon 4y ago
Yes, and not every kid wants to be told what to do by their parents. But it still happens, because that is part of the parents' role. As it is with senior developers.
- throwaway892238 4y ago
  You just described Paternalism...
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - tremon 4y ago
    You write that as if every -ism contains contains an automatic and universal value judgement. For those of us who don't subscribe to that model, do you think you can rephrase your argument without isms?
    - throwaway892238 4y ago
      Do you know why children don't like to be told what to do by their parents? It's not because they can't do whatever they want. It's because as a child, your agency is taken away. You have no choices but those given to you, no information but what little is given to you. You live in a world of someone else's rules and decisions, someone else's tastes, someone else's lifestyle. You are forced to live the life someone else wants, rather than your own life. And you are often given restrictions not because it's what's best for you, but it's just what's convenient for the person in power. Children are often not given the benefit of the doubt. Things aren't explained to them, and they're lied to. Much of the time parents don't even do what's best, but instead whatever they prefer. The child may actually be fine with what a parent wants. But rather than give the child the knowledge and tools to make their own decisions and come to their own conclusions, the parent forces their child to become subservient, removing their ability to be a free human being, making their own mistakes, achieving their own goals. Children often grow up stunted by years of biased information, and the inner working of the minds of others who have grown up in the same system. Paternalism is wrong because it's wrong to think you know what's good for others. You may know what's good for you. And you may have some experience that tells you some potential consequences of specific actions. But by pushing your own desires and limited knowledge on a child, and not permitting experimentation, growth, or making one's own mistakes, the child does not really grow. They just become a poor copy of the parent, and just as limited. Later they internalize all this and try to justify it by doing the same thing to others or their own children. But it's just a coping mechanism for the trauma they experienced as a small human with no rights. If you actually respect your co-workers, do not treat them like children. Do not condescend. Do not limit them. And do not prevent them from making simple mistakes. Give them information, teach them, sure. But only if they want to be taught. Not because you think you have some special right to tell people what to do, or force people into situations they didn't consent to. As a senior myself, I am happy to share information and help people learn and grow. But I would never tell a junior what to do, or lecture them, or prevent them from making mistakes. Everyone deserves to come into their experience in their own way, and be an equal member of the team.
sidlls 4y ago
A junior engineer who doesn’t want to learn from a senior engineer is an engineer setting himself up for a failed career.

Yes, and not every kid wants to be told what to do by their parents. But it still happens, because that is part of the parents' role. As it is with senior developers.

throwaway892238 4y ago
You just described Paternalism...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tremon 4y ago
  You write that as if every -ism contains contains an automatic and universal value judgement. For those of us who don't subscribe to that model, do you think you can rephrase your argument without isms?
  - throwaway892238 4y ago
    Do you know why children don't like to be told what to do by their parents? It's not because they can't do whatever they want. It's because as a child, your agency is taken away. You have no choices but those given to you, no information but what little is given to you. You live in a world of someone else's rules and decisions, someone else's tastes, someone else's lifestyle. You are forced to live the life someone else wants, rather than your own life. And you are often given restrictions not because it's what's best for you, but it's just what's convenient for the person in power. Children are often not given the benefit of the doubt. Things aren't explained to them, and they're lied to. Much of the time parents don't even do what's best, but instead whatever they prefer. The child may actually be fine with what a parent wants. But rather than give the child the knowledge and tools to make their own decisions and come to their own conclusions, the parent forces their child to become subservient, removing their ability to be a free human being, making their own mistakes, achieving their own goals. Children often grow up stunted by years of biased information, and the inner working of the minds of others who have grown up in the same system. Paternalism is wrong because it's wrong to think you know what's good for others. You may know what's good for you. And you may have some experience that tells you some potential consequences of specific actions. But by pushing your own desires and limited knowledge on a child, and not permitting experimentation, growth, or making one's own mistakes, the child does not really grow. They just become a poor copy of the parent, and just as limited. Later they internalize all this and try to justify it by doing the same thing to others or their own children. But it's just a coping mechanism for the trauma they experienced as a small human with no rights. If you actually respect your co-workers, do not treat them like children. Do not condescend. Do not limit them. And do not prevent them from making simple mistakes. Give them information, teach them, sure. But only if they want to be taught. Not because you think you have some special right to tell people what to do, or force people into situations they didn't consent to. As a senior myself, I am happy to share information and help people learn and grow. But I would never tell a junior what to do, or lecture them, or prevent them from making mistakes. Everyone deserves to come into their experience in their own way, and be an equal member of the team.

sidlls 4y ago

A junior engineer who doesn’t want to learn from a senior engineer is an engineer setting himself up for a failed career.