9 ms·

Programming prodigy passes away at 16

436 points by prajjwal 15y ago

swombat 15y ago
I hate to be that guy, but if she's to be labelled a "programming prodigy", what did she actually program?
- tomjen3 15y ago
  Some MS stuff, properly.
- jeswin 15y ago
  http://wherearejohnandtodd.com/arfa.mp3 http://wherearejohnandtodd.com/arfa.mp3 She talks about a calculator and a few other things, written in C#. It could be the same things many of us did when we were kids. But you should listen to it; I can't find the right words to tell you how I felt.
  - _corbett 15y ago
    really enjoyed this interview. what an amazing young woman and a tragedy she is already gone...
    - wallflower 15y ago
      Great interview. A child who can teach us, if we are willing to listen.
- khalidmbajwa 15y ago
  She was the youngest Microsoft Certified Professional in history at age 9. Her genius can be better appreciated in a geographical context. Pakistan has a non-existent culture of Start ups and original products. Thinking out of the box can sometimes even become a Taboo. The support system for doing a start up, building a product or even meaningful contribution to a real-world project , especially at her age simply does not exist. It's therefore not a wonder that she did not produce anything you can measure by your paradigm of a 'Programmer Prodigy'. Passing the MS Certification at her tender age was reflective of her genius. That she wasn't able to translate that into a contribution to a project that had demonstrable external value is irrelevant simply because the cultural and geographical limitations rendered her unable to do so.
  - tluyben2 15y ago
    Are you sure? I mean, yes, this goes for the become an mscp at 9 in Pakistan (which is harder than elsewhere), but she got such a large amount of media attention and I think her father is some kind of big shot in Pakistan as well. It sounds like she was able enough despite the limitations you mention, she just didn't do it?
    - khalidmbajwa 15y ago
      Look, wealth of family is just one very minute side of it. To actually translate your programming skills into an actual product, or startup or contribute to a real-world project, you need a lot more than that. You need mentors, you need awareness, you need tangible inspirations around you, ones that you can learn from and follow, you need advice, you need peers that you can collaborate with. That her achievements remained limited to passing a certification at a young age was because she didn't have any opportunity, or i would even argue , even awareness to take it to the next level. This awareness and opportunity is a product of so many more factors that i have highlighted above, not just media attention and financial power of one's family.
      - tluyben2 15y ago
        Fair point, still, she seemed quite creative. But you are right; 'we' have a different point of view. At least that's what it seems like. Edit: I have some reservations about saying that though; I work with Pakistani designers and programmers, normal people, mostly not even well educated (just a bit) with just enough money to have bought a computer and learn some stuff. And they made products, sites, money just out of nothing like we would do here. So in that regard I have come to know at least some Pakistani as people who, despite their culture, mentors (and general lack there of), peers (and lack there of) and without the press, certification, education and wealthy family who took more or less the same path as 'we' westerners would. There are exceptions to most rules and I would think she would be that.
  - JVirissimo 15y ago
    Being a "genius" is not the same as a "programming prodigy". In order to be a "programming prodigy" you have to "program" something. The above comment was asking for evidence that this very smart girl "programmed" something. Neither claiming Pakistan is a poor programming environment nor that she is an MCP (very impressive BTW) constitutes such evidence.
- mibbitor 15y ago
  The word is used so often these days it's lost all meaning.
- akg 15y ago
  I think what is remarkable is not her accomplishments (i mean she is only 16), but her mindset. There are very few 10 year olds that have the mindset to create something and have any sort of introspection on life. Most are preoccupied with friends, playing, and having a good time. There is nothing wrong with that, but it does set her apart from her peer-group; despite the fact that she may have come from a well todo family and is not succumbed to the limitations in Pakistan. I know many children who have a privileged childhoods (pretty much everyone in first world countries) who do not think the say she does.
- madrox 15y ago
  I think, now that's she's passed, the real question to ask is "what would she have programmed, but now will never have the chance to?"
andreadallera 15y ago
I hate to write this, since the tragic happening but really, the hype is widely unjustified. I started programming when I was 8, I know a lot of people that started meddling around with computer around the same age, and I was born a decade before her which, in computer years, is like a century. Everything programming related was a hundred times more difficult to accomplish than it is now - I wrote assembly on a C64, because that's all my poor family could afford, with nothing more than a printsheet of the opcodes. And no internet, keep that in mind. And I won't say I'm a prodigy because of that. I am also an MCP (Microsoft Certified Professional) and I can tell you that the exam was nothing but difficult - basically, it had nothing to do with actual programming and more with knowing what checkbox to flag. I studied for it the evening before the test. I've seen so many stories like this, most of them not as tragic and not as heartwarming. For example, a heir of a very wealth family that I know has been featured in at least 10 Italian newspapers as "the new Mark Zuckerberg" or "the 20 years-old startupper" or "the genius behind <his startup>", all because his family has deep ties with the editors. That has taught me never to believe a thing of what I read on something even vaguely institutionalized.
- hoodq19 15y ago
  Really? A young girl dies, hacker or not. A writer who was touched by her writes about it. And the only thing worth writing is that you beat her to programming by 2 years. Bravo! Not that this applies to you, but at what age do people learn empathy and sensitivity?
  - andreadallera 15y ago
    No no no not at all - Sorry if it came out that way. On a personal level, I am deeply sorry for her death. Given time, she might have become a great programmer. On a more general level, when I see something like this on the news, I can't help but ask myself why exactly somebody has written an article about this particular person. In this case, it doesn't seem to me that she was the prodigy they're talking about. A smart kid with a will to improve herself? Certainly. But think about the context - she came from a very rich Pakistani family. What would you think, as a 16 year old boy from Pakistan, coming from a poor family and working your bones off to make a living, coding at night, of this story? Because, you know, it's very likely that there's somebody like the boy in question in Pakistan. Scope mixing is the bane of modern communication. You can't use empathy as an excuse to talk about anything. This personal tragedy should have remained personal, not brought up on the news. Just my humble opinion.
madrox 15y ago
If the headline was "world's youngest MSP" instead of "programming prodigy" would there be less hate in this thread?
- mibbitor 15y ago
  "world's youngest MSP" is still pretty meaningless. I have no clue why this is even on hacker news, let alone top story.
  - chc 15y ago
    Well, you have only been here eight days. Give it some time and I'm sure you'll come to understand what HN appreciates better.
    - da_coke_chef 15y ago
      "cracked out programmers gambling the trustfund on ocaml"
- pjscott 15y ago
  I surveyed the comment thread; there are some people being pedantic, and some who are annoyed at various things, but I haven't seen a whole lot of hate. (This comment would be categorized as pedantic.)
mgkimsal 15y ago
I don't know quite what Pakistan's cultural norms are, but I suspect that being female, the "youngest MCP" thing may have been even that much more remarkable.
- fiaz 15y ago
  Keep in mind Pakistan had a female prime minister many years ago.
  - mgkimsal 15y ago
    Good point - had forgotten about that.
  - bitops 15y ago
    Don't forget that that same prime minister was brutally assassinated when she tried to return to her country. And she was kicked out forcibly, had to live in exile for many years. A remarkable woman. The movie "Bhutto" about her life is well worth seeing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto
fiaz 15y ago
Sure being an "MCP" in the HN circle is absolutely meaningless and doesn't warrant the title "programming prodigy", but that's not the point of this article. The point is that this was a girl who came from a third world country where women are not treated as well as men are in the West, and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do something for herself.
- andreadallera 15y ago
  > and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do something for herself. Sorry but no. Again, I don't want to belittle her accomplishments - it's certainly a feat for any girl or boy her age to be even able to put a very simple application together, but she came from a very wealthy Pakistani family. Saying that she made it to Redmond out of her own ambition and drive is spitting in the face of all her not so privileged compatriots who are struggling to do the same.
  - fiaz 15y ago
    Would you care to elaborate on your last statement? EDIT: Actually never mind. This is only going to end up bad. You have your opinion and I have mine.
    - andreadallera 15y ago
      > You have your opinion and I have mine. So let's not try to have a discussion about it? I've never understood that frame of mind.
      - Karunamon 15y ago
        Probably because he/she recognizes that any such discussion will not lead to any possibly productive output and instead be a pointless match of tilting at windmills. For what it's worth, I'm getting the same vibe from you. Your first contribution to this thread was basically taking a big steaming dump over this young lady's accomplishments. Why would you do that? It didn't add anything to the discussion, and instead makes you look like a colossal jerk. If this were not HN, I'd think you were just plain trolling.
83457 15y ago
I remember when the stories about Afra getting certified came out years ago. Regardless of some comments on HN about her accomplishments being over-hyped, I think we can all agree that she had a bright future and her death is tragic.
apinstein 15y ago
I remember reading about this girl years ago. Like some of the other commenters I wasn't that surprised about her MSFT certification. I mean even a 10-year old can geek out on that kind of stuff, it wasn't that notable. However I just noticed this quote from her, which is so much more remarkable for a 10-year old: "If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind," she said. "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind." To me that's the amazing part of her story, and something she can teach others about forever.
- sp332 15y ago
  When I was young (8-9 years old) everyone - peers, teachers, and parents - told me to stop being so outspoken. "Think before you speak" was drilled into me for years, continuously. It was probably the worst advice I have ever received.
  - pbsd 15y ago
    "Think before you speak" is always good advice. The "confidence of the mind" referred above does not mean that you should shit out everything that pops in your head.
    - ScottBurson 15y ago
      Ah, but the question is, are you saying something stupid, or something actually quite intelligent that other people just don't want to hear? The latter tends to attract even more hostility than the former.
      - aGHz 15y ago
        And neither have anything to do with shyness. "Think before you speak" is still very important advice, and then if you prefer to not raise hostility, do it because you chose so not because of shyness.
    - sp332 15y ago
mathattack 15y ago
There's definitely a life lesson in her tragedy that's getting lost amongst folks arguing whether or not she was a true prodigy. It seems clear that she had emotional intelligence above and beyond analytical. That should be enough. I feel terrible for her parents. Burying a child has to be the hardest thing in the world.
kevinalexbrown 15y ago
I'm going to refrain from commenting on her abilities. One problem I have with "X accomplished person passed away" on the internet is that a free-for-all seems to start, wherein everyone feels qualified to judge that person's accomplishments from behind a monitor. Steve Jobs, whoever, it might seem unfair that just because someone died that the "unworthy" things they did get celebrated. I disagree. What did strike me as particularly relevant for HN and the drive to succeed was the following quotation from an earlier article on her life, where the author so kindly informed her that she was no longer the "youngest MCP in the world": “This is the first time I’ve seen this story. But I must say that I’m really happy to have read it. This is exactly what I had been wishing for ever since I got to bring laurels for my country. I am very glad to see that people are following what I did and have succeeded in beating me. I don’t know whether you’ve heard or not but a boy, named Bilal, from Gujranwala in Pakistan also became a Microsoft Certified Professional at the age of nine. I would say that the other youngsters should follow suit, thereby convincing the people to take us kids seriously. Our generation is very talented and so should be promoted.”[1] A lot of people are brought here by the will to do Something Great, so much so that we get caught up in whether or not credit is given rightly, whether we'll get it, whether the whole world of doing Great Things is fair (it's not). It was this perspective of humility in the face of eventually being passed up, which is so rare in externally validated precocious children, that I found inspiring. [1] http://www.geekwire.com/2011/arfa http://www.geekwire.com/2011/arfa
- feralchimp 15y ago
  Thank you for this. We are celebrating the life / lamenting the death of the person to happened to accomplish something notable, not the point-accomplishment itself (which will be duplicated/eclipsed). She had class and a sense of perspective well beyond her years, and which many people fail to achieve over much longer lives.
hermannj314 15y ago
MCP at 9 and got to meet Bill Gates? Wow! That is a great accomplishment. I'm almost 30 and I have not done either of those things! What a great quote, too. She seemed to have a great outlook. Rest in Peace.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  Done that, no biggie there. What's most important about her was not her professional certification. When others younger than her got certified, instead of seeing competition, she saw company. Of the grants she received, she donated a computer lab to a girls school. She was very mature and articulate. I may disagree with her tastes in programming languages and operating systems, but I can recognize a great person when I see one.
aneth 15y ago
Her philosophy in more "adult" language: http://www.doitmotherfucker.com/ http://www.doitmotherfucker.com/
bane 15y ago
"If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind," she said. "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind." Meditating on shyness as a kind of fear "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
rolypoly 15y ago
They are naming their IT Parks after her. That is absurd and completely illogical. I guess Pakistani will soon include her doings and sayings in their Computer Science courses. [1]http://digg.com/newsbar/Technology/lahore_i_t_park_now_named_arfa_karim_i_t_park_chief_minister_punjab http://digg.com/newsbar/Technology/lahore_i_t_park_now_named... [2]http://tribune.com.pk/story/321964/k/ http://tribune.com.pk/story/321964/k/
- beachgeek 15y ago
  It does seem like they are over doing it a bit. But this is a country with a serious shortage of real heroes. If other Pakistani kids are motivated and inspired by her life I think its worth the renaming, adulation etc.
  - rolypoly 15y ago
    Did you ever heard about what they did with Abdus Salam? and motivating your kids to do MCP is nonsense? yea she was great but still i think she dont worth to have things named after her. It would be better if they promote real giants (Alan Turing, Dennis Ritchie etc), most of Pakistanis are unaware of them. They think computer science is just Microsoft and Bill gates. http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/21/salaam-abdus-salam.html http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/21/salaam-abdus-salam.html
    - beachgeek 15y ago
      I'm from India. Abdus Salam was MY hero while growing up in the 80s. I kind of understand the weird religio-politics in Pakistan, which seems to have led to Dr.Salam being marginalized. I'm starting to see where you are coming from, but I really think its OK to celebrate this girl's success and recognition.
- Karunamon 15y ago
  It's absurd that parks are named after notable people? What? Someone explain the bile and hatred in this thread to me. I don't get it.
AmadKamali 15y ago
Firstly,I think the real reason why the girl became a media celebrity was not her Microsoft exam credentials or programming ability. It was that she came out as a really smart, intelligent,sweet, eloquent and mature person in every interview she gave after hitting the headlines for being invited by Bill Gates. I wish some of these interviews had subtitles so you could have a better understanding of what I mean. For example when asked(at the age of nine years)what her really outstanding achievement was, she replied that it was her ability to gift a computer lab to a girls school of her native village(after winning awards and grants etc). When asked what she wanted to do next, she said she would like to start "digicon" valley in Pakistan like silicon valley in US. And may more like that. Secondly, she didn't belong to elite class at all. Her father is a retired Army officer, which means essentially middle class. She was transferred to a better/elite School only after becoming a celebrity. Here is one interview which is entirely in English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCUbRsab6iQ&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCUbRsab6iQ&feature=relat...
klausjensen 15y ago
"If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind," she said. "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind." Pretty close to my motto: "What Would You Do If You Were Not Afraid?". Taken from "Who Moved My Cheese?" by Dr. Spencer Johnsson.
simplegeek 15y ago
I'm a long-time HN member and I'm surprised at some of the comments here. Probably she wasn't a prodigy, also probably she wasn't a genius. Though she had every possibly trait that must have made her a genius later in her life. Still, she was very intelligent, very sweet and a very caring kid. I met her and also her dad around 2005. Also, she came from a very humble background and when I met her, her father was travelling with her using public transport (I know this because I did drop her and her father few times). That having been said, given where she came from, she did few things in her 16 years of life that I know may people cannot. RIP.
da_coke_chef 15y ago
a good number of you need more white lady in your life. its sooo obvious. rest in digits to the young one. see you in the network.
jacquesm 15y ago
This thread and a the story make me equally sad. The thread because this is one of the most hateful and ugly threads I've ever seen on HN. A thread like this would be literally unthinkable a year or more ago, and now I'm not even surprised it is here. The story because it is about the death of a person that could easily be a role model for a large number of young children, but females especially in third world - and other - countries. Those writing from their comfy first world lives that feel the need to point out how 'privileged' this girl was and belittle her achievements have to stop and think - excellent advice from elsewhere in this thread - before they continue to write. The internet has a long memory. Being insensitive to the death of any child makes you look ugly, stupid and negative in ways that I find hard to describe. Whatever your motivation, jealousy, a general misunderstanding of the station of women in many third world countries or any other thing that might have prompted you to write what you wrote here: Let me tell you straight from the heart that I think this girl was everything you in particular should aspire to be. Smart, articulate, compassionate and gifted. The fact that she may or may not have been a member of a family of some standing in Pakistan does not diminish her achievements. More often than not those that are born into positions of wealth or with other so called advantages squander their fortunes and end up with less than their parents left them with. That's an all too common story. This girl took what little life she had and grasped it with both hands, then made the best of it. I hope that when my time comes I'll be able to say I did the same.
- habitatforus 15y ago
  Found my old password and logged in just to upvote this comment. Any child driven enough to do all this at a young age would have accomplished much more down the road. This is one of those negative sum situations where we all loose.
  - protomyth 15y ago
    Pretty much did the same thing myself (stopped feeling good about commenting on anything). Her drive and humble demeanor were evident from the interviews she gave. Her death is a loss.
EponymousCoward 15y ago
Totally shocked that a community full of Aspies is having a hard time mustering sympathy for this girl and instead have to pedantically inform the Internet that that's not really programming and what's the big deal anyway I did this when I was 12 in between stimming sessions and telling my parents every species of dinosaur.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
taopaipai 15y ago
Pretentious sensationalism. Keep that stuff away from HN, please.
squiggly101 15y ago
One less obnoxious TED save-the-world talk to not look forward to by the sounds of it.
AznHisoka 15y ago
Anyone know what was the causes of her seizures?
azizali 15y ago
I have heard a few interviews of her when she was 11. In her native language URDU. AND I must tell you that she is the most Wisest girl of her age that I have ever known. She is wiser than most 25 year olds. And her personality was truely fun and energizing.

436 points by prajjwal 15y ago

swombat 15y ago

I hate to be that guy, but if she's to be labelled a "programming prodigy", what did she actually program?

tomjen3 15y ago
Some MS stuff, properly.
jeswin 15y ago
http://wherearejohnandtodd.com/arfa.mp3 http://wherearejohnandtodd.com/arfa.mp3 She talks about a calculator and a few other things, written in C#. It could be the same things many of us did when we were kids. But you should listen to it; I can't find the right words to tell you how I felt.
- _corbett 15y ago
  really enjoyed this interview. what an amazing young woman and a tragedy she is already gone...
  - wallflower 15y ago
    Great interview. A child who can teach us, if we are willing to listen.
khalidmbajwa 15y ago
She was the youngest Microsoft Certified Professional in history at age 9. Her genius can be better appreciated in a geographical context. Pakistan has a non-existent culture of Start ups and original products. Thinking out of the box can sometimes even become a Taboo. The support system for doing a start up, building a product or even meaningful contribution to a real-world project , especially at her age simply does not exist. It's therefore not a wonder that she did not produce anything you can measure by your paradigm of a 'Programmer Prodigy'. Passing the MS Certification at her tender age was reflective of her genius. That she wasn't able to translate that into a contribution to a project that had demonstrable external value is irrelevant simply because the cultural and geographical limitations rendered her unable to do so.
- tluyben2 15y ago
  Are you sure? I mean, yes, this goes for the become an mscp at 9 in Pakistan (which is harder than elsewhere), but she got such a large amount of media attention and I think her father is some kind of big shot in Pakistan as well. It sounds like she was able enough despite the limitations you mention, she just didn't do it?
  - khalidmbajwa 15y ago
    Look, wealth of family is just one very minute side of it. To actually translate your programming skills into an actual product, or startup or contribute to a real-world project, you need a lot more than that. You need mentors, you need awareness, you need tangible inspirations around you, ones that you can learn from and follow, you need advice, you need peers that you can collaborate with. That her achievements remained limited to passing a certification at a young age was because she didn't have any opportunity, or i would even argue , even awareness to take it to the next level. This awareness and opportunity is a product of so many more factors that i have highlighted above, not just media attention and financial power of one's family.
    - tluyben2 15y ago
      Fair point, still, she seemed quite creative. But you are right; 'we' have a different point of view. At least that's what it seems like. Edit: I have some reservations about saying that though; I work with Pakistani designers and programmers, normal people, mostly not even well educated (just a bit) with just enough money to have bought a computer and learn some stuff. And they made products, sites, money just out of nothing like we would do here. So in that regard I have come to know at least some Pakistani as people who, despite their culture, mentors (and general lack there of), peers (and lack there of) and without the press, certification, education and wealthy family who took more or less the same path as 'we' westerners would. There are exceptions to most rules and I would think she would be that.
- JVirissimo 15y ago
  Being a "genius" is not the same as a "programming prodigy". In order to be a "programming prodigy" you have to "program" something. The above comment was asking for evidence that this very smart girl "programmed" something. Neither claiming Pakistan is a poor programming environment nor that she is an MCP (very impressive BTW) constitutes such evidence.
mibbitor 15y ago
The word is used so often these days it's lost all meaning.
akg 15y ago
I think what is remarkable is not her accomplishments (i mean she is only 16), but her mindset. There are very few 10 year olds that have the mindset to create something and have any sort of introspection on life. Most are preoccupied with friends, playing, and having a good time. There is nothing wrong with that, but it does set her apart from her peer-group; despite the fact that she may have come from a well todo family and is not succumbed to the limitations in Pakistan. I know many children who have a privileged childhoods (pretty much everyone in first world countries) who do not think the say she does.
madrox 15y ago
I think, now that's she's passed, the real question to ask is "what would she have programmed, but now will never have the chance to?"

andreadallera 15y ago

I hate to write this, since the tragic happening but really, the hype is widely unjustified. I started programming when I was 8, I know a lot of people that started meddling around with computer around the same age, and I was born a decade before her which, in computer years, is like a century. Everything programming related was a hundred times more difficult to accomplish than it is now - I wrote assembly on a C64, because that's all my poor family could afford, with nothing more than a printsheet of the opcodes. And no internet, keep that in mind. And I won't say I'm a prodigy because of that. I am also an MCP (Microsoft Certified Professional) and I can tell you that the exam was nothing but difficult - basically, it had nothing to do with actual programming and more with knowing what checkbox to flag. I studied for it the evening before the test. I've seen so many stories like this, most of them not as tragic and not as heartwarming. For example, a heir of a very wealth family that I know has been featured in at least 10 Italian newspapers as "the new Mark Zuckerberg" or "the 20 years-old startupper" or "the genius behind <his startup>", all because his family has deep ties with the editors. That has taught me never to believe a thing of what I read on something even vaguely institutionalized.

hoodq19 15y ago
Really? A young girl dies, hacker or not. A writer who was touched by her writes about it. And the only thing worth writing is that you beat her to programming by 2 years. Bravo! Not that this applies to you, but at what age do people learn empathy and sensitivity?
- andreadallera 15y ago
  No no no not at all - Sorry if it came out that way. On a personal level, I am deeply sorry for her death. Given time, she might have become a great programmer. On a more general level, when I see something like this on the news, I can't help but ask myself why exactly somebody has written an article about this particular person. In this case, it doesn't seem to me that she was the prodigy they're talking about. A smart kid with a will to improve herself? Certainly. But think about the context - she came from a very rich Pakistani family. What would you think, as a 16 year old boy from Pakistan, coming from a poor family and working your bones off to make a living, coding at night, of this story? Because, you know, it's very likely that there's somebody like the boy in question in Pakistan. Scope mixing is the bane of modern communication. You can't use empathy as an excuse to talk about anything. This personal tragedy should have remained personal, not brought up on the news. Just my humble opinion.

madrox 15y ago

If the headline was "world's youngest MSP" instead of "programming prodigy" would there be less hate in this thread?

mibbitor 15y ago
"world's youngest MSP" is still pretty meaningless. I have no clue why this is even on hacker news, let alone top story.
- chc 15y ago
  Well, you have only been here eight days. Give it some time and I'm sure you'll come to understand what HN appreciates better.
  - da_coke_chef 15y ago
    "cracked out programmers gambling the trustfund on ocaml"
pjscott 15y ago
I surveyed the comment thread; there are some people being pedantic, and some who are annoyed at various things, but I haven't seen a whole lot of hate. (This comment would be categorized as pedantic.)

mgkimsal 15y ago

I don't know quite what Pakistan's cultural norms are, but I suspect that being female, the "youngest MCP" thing may have been even that much more remarkable.

fiaz 15y ago
Keep in mind Pakistan had a female prime minister many years ago.
- mgkimsal 15y ago
  Good point - had forgotten about that.
- bitops 15y ago
  Don't forget that that same prime minister was brutally assassinated when she tried to return to her country. And she was kicked out forcibly, had to live in exile for many years. A remarkable woman. The movie "Bhutto" about her life is well worth seeing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benazir_Bhutto

fiaz 15y ago

Sure being an "MCP" in the HN circle is absolutely meaningless and doesn't warrant the title "programming prodigy", but that's not the point of this article. The point is that this was a girl who came from a third world country where women are not treated as well as men are in the West, and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do something for herself.

andreadallera 15y ago
> and made it to the Redmond campus based on her own ambition and drive to do something for herself. Sorry but no. Again, I don't want to belittle her accomplishments - it's certainly a feat for any girl or boy her age to be even able to put a very simple application together, but she came from a very wealthy Pakistani family. Saying that she made it to Redmond out of her own ambition and drive is spitting in the face of all her not so privileged compatriots who are struggling to do the same.
- fiaz 15y ago
  Would you care to elaborate on your last statement? EDIT: Actually never mind. This is only going to end up bad. You have your opinion and I have mine.
  - andreadallera 15y ago
    > You have your opinion and I have mine. So let's not try to have a discussion about it? I've never understood that frame of mind.
    - Karunamon 15y ago
      Probably because he/she recognizes that any such discussion will not lead to any possibly productive output and instead be a pointless match of tilting at windmills. For what it's worth, I'm getting the same vibe from you. Your first contribution to this thread was basically taking a big steaming dump over this young lady's accomplishments. Why would you do that? It didn't add anything to the discussion, and instead makes you look like a colossal jerk. If this were not HN, I'd think you were just plain trolling.

83457 15y ago

I remember when the stories about Afra getting certified came out years ago. Regardless of some comments on HN about her accomplishments being over-hyped, I think we can all agree that she had a bright future and her death is tragic.

apinstein 15y ago

I remember reading about this girl years ago. Like some of the other commenters I wasn't that surprised about her MSFT certification. I mean even a 10-year old can geek out on that kind of stuff, it wasn't that notable. However I just noticed this quote from her, which is so much more remarkable for a 10-year old: "If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind," she said. "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind." To me that's the amazing part of her story, and something she can teach others about forever.

sp332 15y ago
When I was young (8-9 years old) everyone - peers, teachers, and parents - told me to stop being so outspoken. "Think before you speak" was drilled into me for years, continuously. It was probably the worst advice I have ever received.
- pbsd 15y ago
  "Think before you speak" is always good advice. The "confidence of the mind" referred above does not mean that you should shit out everything that pops in your head.
  - ScottBurson 15y ago
    Ah, but the question is, are you saying something stupid, or something actually quite intelligent that other people just don't want to hear? The latter tends to attract even more hostility than the former.
    - aGHz 15y ago
      And neither have anything to do with shyness. "Think before you speak" is still very important advice, and then if you prefer to not raise hostility, do it because you chose so not because of shyness.
  - sp332 15y ago

mathattack 15y ago

There's definitely a life lesson in her tragedy that's getting lost amongst folks arguing whether or not she was a true prodigy. It seems clear that she had emotional intelligence above and beyond analytical. That should be enough. I feel terrible for her parents. Burying a child has to be the hardest thing in the world.

kevinalexbrown 15y ago

I'm going to refrain from commenting on her abilities. One problem I have with "X accomplished person passed away" on the internet is that a free-for-all seems to start, wherein everyone feels qualified to judge that person's accomplishments from behind a monitor. Steve Jobs, whoever, it might seem unfair that just because someone died that the "unworthy" things they did get celebrated. I disagree. What did strike me as particularly relevant for HN and the drive to succeed was the following quotation from an earlier article on her life, where the author so kindly informed her that she was no longer the "youngest MCP in the world": “This is the first time I’ve seen this story. But I must say that I’m really happy to have read it. This is exactly what I had been wishing for ever since I got to bring laurels for my country. I am very glad to see that people are following what I did and have succeeded in beating me. I don’t know whether you’ve heard or not but a boy, named Bilal, from Gujranwala in Pakistan also became a Microsoft Certified Professional at the age of nine. I would say that the other youngsters should follow suit, thereby convincing the people to take us kids seriously. Our generation is very talented and so should be promoted.”[1] A lot of people are brought here by the will to do Something Great, so much so that we get caught up in whether or not credit is given rightly, whether we'll get it, whether the whole world of doing Great Things is fair (it's not). It was this perspective of humility in the face of eventually being passed up, which is so rare in externally validated precocious children, that I found inspiring. [1] http://www.geekwire.com/2011/arfa http://www.geekwire.com/2011/arfa

feralchimp 15y ago
Thank you for this. We are celebrating the life / lamenting the death of the person to happened to accomplish something notable, not the point-accomplishment itself (which will be duplicated/eclipsed). She had class and a sense of perspective well beyond her years, and which many people fail to achieve over much longer lives.

hermannj314 15y ago

MCP at 9 and got to meet Bill Gates? Wow! That is a great accomplishment. I'm almost 30 and I have not done either of those things! What a great quote, too. She seemed to have a great outlook. Rest in Peace.

rbanffy 15y ago
Done that, no biggie there. What's most important about her was not her professional certification. When others younger than her got certified, instead of seeing competition, she saw company. Of the grants she received, she donated a computer lab to a girls school. She was very mature and articulate. I may disagree with her tastes in programming languages and operating systems, but I can recognize a great person when I see one.

aneth 15y ago

Her philosophy in more "adult" language: http://www.doitmotherfucker.com/ http://www.doitmotherfucker.com/

bane 15y ago

"If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind," she said. "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind." Meditating on shyness as a kind of fear "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

rolypoly 15y ago

They are naming their IT Parks after her. That is absurd and completely illogical. I guess Pakistani will soon include her doings and sayings in their Computer Science courses. [1]http://digg.com/newsbar/Technology/lahore_i_t_park_now_named_arfa_karim_i_t_park_chief_minister_punjab http://digg.com/newsbar/Technology/lahore_i_t_park_now_named... [2]http://tribune.com.pk/story/321964/k/ http://tribune.com.pk/story/321964/k/

beachgeek 15y ago
It does seem like they are over doing it a bit. But this is a country with a serious shortage of real heroes. If other Pakistani kids are motivated and inspired by her life I think its worth the renaming, adulation etc.
- rolypoly 15y ago
  Did you ever heard about what they did with Abdus Salam? and motivating your kids to do MCP is nonsense? yea she was great but still i think she dont worth to have things named after her. It would be better if they promote real giants (Alan Turing, Dennis Ritchie etc), most of Pakistanis are unaware of them. They think computer science is just Microsoft and Bill gates. http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/21/salaam-abdus-salam.html http://www.dawn.com/2011/11/21/salaam-abdus-salam.html
  - beachgeek 15y ago
    I'm from India. Abdus Salam was MY hero while growing up in the 80s. I kind of understand the weird religio-politics in Pakistan, which seems to have led to Dr.Salam being marginalized. I'm starting to see where you are coming from, but I really think its OK to celebrate this girl's success and recognition.
Karunamon 15y ago
It's absurd that parks are named after notable people? What? Someone explain the bile and hatred in this thread to me. I don't get it.

AmadKamali 15y ago

Firstly,I think the real reason why the girl became a media celebrity was not her Microsoft exam credentials or programming ability. It was that she came out as a really smart, intelligent,sweet, eloquent and mature person in every interview she gave after hitting the headlines for being invited by Bill Gates. I wish some of these interviews had subtitles so you could have a better understanding of what I mean. For example when asked(at the age of nine years)what her really outstanding achievement was, she replied that it was her ability to gift a computer lab to a girls school of her native village(after winning awards and grants etc). When asked what she wanted to do next, she said she would like to start "digicon" valley in Pakistan like silicon valley in US. And may more like that. Secondly, she didn't belong to elite class at all. Her father is a retired Army officer, which means essentially middle class. She was transferred to a better/elite School only after becoming a celebrity. Here is one interview which is entirely in English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCUbRsab6iQ&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCUbRsab6iQ&feature=relat...

klausjensen 15y ago

"If you want to do something big in your life, you must remember that shyness is only the mind," she said. "If you think shy, you act shy. If you think confident you act confident. Therefore never let shyness conquer your mind." Pretty close to my motto: "What Would You Do If You Were Not Afraid?". Taken from "Who Moved My Cheese?" by Dr. Spencer Johnsson.

simplegeek 15y ago

I'm a long-time HN member and I'm surprised at some of the comments here. Probably she wasn't a prodigy, also probably she wasn't a genius. Though she had every possibly trait that must have made her a genius later in her life. Still, she was very intelligent, very sweet and a very caring kid. I met her and also her dad around 2005. Also, she came from a very humble background and when I met her, her father was travelling with her using public transport (I know this because I did drop her and her father few times). That having been said, given where she came from, she did few things in her 16 years of life that I know may people cannot. RIP.

da_coke_chef 15y ago

a good number of you need more white lady in your life. its sooo obvious. rest in digits to the young one. see you in the network.

jacquesm 15y ago

This thread and a the story make me equally sad. The thread because this is one of the most hateful and ugly threads I've ever seen on HN. A thread like this would be literally unthinkable a year or more ago, and now I'm not even surprised it is here. The story because it is about the death of a person that could easily be a role model for a large number of young children, but females especially in third world - and other - countries. Those writing from their comfy first world lives that feel the need to point out how 'privileged' this girl was and belittle her achievements have to stop and think - excellent advice from elsewhere in this thread - before they continue to write. The internet has a long memory. Being insensitive to the death of any child makes you look ugly, stupid and negative in ways that I find hard to describe. Whatever your motivation, jealousy, a general misunderstanding of the station of women in many third world countries or any other thing that might have prompted you to write what you wrote here: Let me tell you straight from the heart that I think this girl was everything you in particular should aspire to be. Smart, articulate, compassionate and gifted. The fact that she may or may not have been a member of a family of some standing in Pakistan does not diminish her achievements. More often than not those that are born into positions of wealth or with other so called advantages squander their fortunes and end up with less than their parents left them with. That's an all too common story. This girl took what little life she had and grasped it with both hands, then made the best of it. I hope that when my time comes I'll be able to say I did the same.

habitatforus 15y ago
Found my old password and logged in just to upvote this comment. Any child driven enough to do all this at a young age would have accomplished much more down the road. This is one of those negative sum situations where we all loose.
- protomyth 15y ago
  Pretty much did the same thing myself (stopped feeling good about commenting on anything). Her drive and humble demeanor were evident from the interviews she gave. Her death is a loss.

EponymousCoward 15y ago

Totally shocked that a community full of Aspies is having a hard time mustering sympathy for this girl and instead have to pedantically inform the Internet that that's not really programming and what's the big deal anyway I did this when I was 12 in between stimming sessions and telling my parents every species of dinosaur.

deleted 15y ago
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taopaipai 15y ago

Pretentious sensationalism. Keep that stuff away from HN, please.

squiggly101 15y ago

One less obnoxious TED save-the-world talk to not look forward to by the sounds of it.

AznHisoka 15y ago

Anyone know what was the causes of her seizures?

azizali 15y ago

I have heard a few interviews of her when she was 11. In her native language URDU. AND I must tell you that she is the most Wisest girl of her age that I have ever known. She is wiser than most 25 year olds. And her personality was truely fun and energizing.