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Technical folks simply cannot do their jobs without solid working relationships, and those are not as well formed digitally. Remote work will continue to reduc

Technical folks simply cannot do their jobs without solid working relationships, and those are not as well formed digitally. Remote work will continue to reduce over the next couple of years. If you don’t have a real reason for being at home during the work day, expect to be back in the office soon.

giantg2 4y ago
"Technical folks simply cannot do their jobs without solid working relationships, and those are not as well formed digitally." Any real data on this? All the data our company has shows increased performance during WFH, such as an increase in deliveries and decrease in cycle time. So even if it's not as well formed, it seems it's formed sufficiently.
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  I think you focusing on delivery and cycle time is kind of emblematic of my point; none of that matters if you ship the wrong thing, and don’t correct over time, but to you that’s where the conversation ends. That’s not where it actually ends, however. How do you know what to work on? How do you know if you built a profitable thing? Being remote lets you ignore those things in ways that are harder to do in person. Hybrid is probably here to stay, but “remote first” was a pandemic only thing.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    "I think you focusing on delivery and cycle time is kind of emblematic of my point; none of that matters if you ship the wrong thing, and don’t correct over time, but to you that’s where the conversation ends." Lol don't tell me what I think. Those are the metrics that our management uses. That's their focus, and are pervasive in the industry. Sure, you can talk about shipping the wrong thing. What's the metric called for that, or would it fall under rework? Our rework has not gone up. There's no noticeable increase in failed projects either. "Being remote lets you ignore those things in ways that are harder to do in person." No, it really doesn't. These same ritual and due diligence conversations take place remotely. Or maybe your org doesn't have good procedures?
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      If you don’t know why or how your management figures out what to build or if what you’re building is what they need, and don’t see how that’s related to remote work, there’s not much I can do to help you.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        What are you even going on about? Discussing what to build isn't what we are talking about here. Mor to mention, my management doesn't talk about that. The business side does. And this topic is covered via meeting. Whether those meeting are remote or not do not matter. Now please stop trolling this topic.
        SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        So, a) we're not talking about how people decide what to build, as that has nothing to do with working remotely, b) managers aren't involved in determining either what to build or how well the plan to build something was executed, and c) the people who do decide those things have meetings which are irrelevant when talking about working remotely or in person. Am I understanding you correctly?
        giantg2 4y ago
        I've implied that I'm done with this conversation as it seems you're trolling.
        SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        Not trolling, I just know in difficult conversations it’s sometimes helpful to restate what the other person is saying to try and figure out the disconnect.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > Being remote lets you ignore those things in ways that are harder to do in person. How? That's certainly not what I've observed.
Adraghast 4y ago
Thanks for the tip, but I was doing good work remotely ten years before covid and will continue to do so ten years after.
- SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
  I mean sure, but there’s no real way of knowing what you’ve left on the table by working remotely. And I say this as someone who was also working remotely before the pandemic. I’m always wary of people who refuse to acknowledge the downsides of ideas they support…
  - Adraghast 4y ago
    There's not, but I do know what's on my table: a career doing things I find reasonably stimulating that provides me more material comfort than I know what to do with. I am doubtful these hallway conversations I keep hearing about could provide me anything else that I would want, and I'm definitely not willing to give up my freedom and flexibility just to find out.
    - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
      It's not really yours to give up, is my point. You're not looking at this from the employer's perspective, and it's making it hard for you to understand that what you want is only part of the equation.
      - Adraghast 4y ago
        It’s not some solvable, technocratic equation, it’s a conflict between labor and management. I don’t look at it from my employers’ perspectives because I don’t care about their outcomes.
        SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        Then why should they care about your outcomes? You’ve got to do better if you expect to retain employment long term, and certainly if you expect to retain the privilege of working remotely.

giantg2 4y ago

"Technical folks simply cannot do their jobs without solid working relationships, and those are not as well formed digitally." Any real data on this? All the data our company has shows increased performance during WFH, such as an increase in deliveries and decrease in cycle time. So even if it's not as well formed, it seems it's formed sufficiently.

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
I think you focusing on delivery and cycle time is kind of emblematic of my point; none of that matters if you ship the wrong thing, and don’t correct over time, but to you that’s where the conversation ends. That’s not where it actually ends, however. How do you know what to work on? How do you know if you built a profitable thing? Being remote lets you ignore those things in ways that are harder to do in person. Hybrid is probably here to stay, but “remote first” was a pandemic only thing.
- giantg2 4y ago
  "I think you focusing on delivery and cycle time is kind of emblematic of my point; none of that matters if you ship the wrong thing, and don’t correct over time, but to you that’s where the conversation ends." Lol don't tell me what I think. Those are the metrics that our management uses. That's their focus, and are pervasive in the industry. Sure, you can talk about shipping the wrong thing. What's the metric called for that, or would it fall under rework? Our rework has not gone up. There's no noticeable increase in failed projects either. "Being remote lets you ignore those things in ways that are harder to do in person." No, it really doesn't. These same ritual and due diligence conversations take place remotely. Or maybe your org doesn't have good procedures?
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    If you don’t know why or how your management figures out what to build or if what you’re building is what they need, and don’t see how that’s related to remote work, there’s not much I can do to help you.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      What are you even going on about? Discussing what to build isn't what we are talking about here. Mor to mention, my management doesn't talk about that. The business side does. And this topic is covered via meeting. Whether those meeting are remote or not do not matter. Now please stop trolling this topic.
      - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        So, a) we're not talking about how people decide what to build, as that has nothing to do with working remotely, b) managers aren't involved in determining either what to build or how well the plan to build something was executed, and c) the people who do decide those things have meetings which are irrelevant when talking about working remotely or in person. Am I understanding you correctly?
        giantg2 4y ago
        I've implied that I'm done with this conversation as it seems you're trolling.
        SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        Not trolling, I just know in difficult conversations it’s sometimes helpful to restate what the other person is saying to try and figure out the disconnect.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > Being remote lets you ignore those things in ways that are harder to do in person. How? That's certainly not what I've observed.

Adraghast 4y ago

Thanks for the tip, but I was doing good work remotely ten years before covid and will continue to do so ten years after.

SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
I mean sure, but there’s no real way of knowing what you’ve left on the table by working remotely. And I say this as someone who was also working remotely before the pandemic. I’m always wary of people who refuse to acknowledge the downsides of ideas they support…
- Adraghast 4y ago
  There's not, but I do know what's on my table: a career doing things I find reasonably stimulating that provides me more material comfort than I know what to do with. I am doubtful these hallway conversations I keep hearing about could provide me anything else that I would want, and I'm definitely not willing to give up my freedom and flexibility just to find out.
  - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
    It's not really yours to give up, is my point. You're not looking at this from the employer's perspective, and it's making it hard for you to understand that what you want is only part of the equation.
    - Adraghast 4y ago
      It’s not some solvable, technocratic equation, it’s a conflict between labor and management. I don’t look at it from my employers’ perspectives because I don’t care about their outcomes.
      - SpeedilyDamage 4y ago
        Then why should they care about your outcomes? You’ve got to do better if you expect to retain employment long term, and certainly if you expect to retain the privilege of working remotely.