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> I echo others here - I've not seen a meaningful, revenue-driving conversation happen in these in a decade of work. If you restrict yourself to that metric, m

> I echo others here - I've not seen a meaningful, revenue-driving conversation happen in these in a decade of work. If you restrict yourself to that metric, maybe. But theres more to life (and business) than that. Does everyone on HN seriously care that little about fellow workers? Not necessarily asking to become close friends, but I feel a workplace that is business-only to be sterile and depressing. It’s interesting to talk to people, even co-workers, about non-work stuff. People are cool in so many different ways, and it makes life better to know them a little bit.

sodapopcan 4y ago
I'm one of those people who likes to enjoy work--ie, I don't think of work as "just work"--and I want to get to know the people I work with and maybe even make a real friend or two. And yet, I don't ever want to go back to an office. Zoom/Tuple calls are more than sufficient for me for shooting the shit for a bit while on the clock. Otherwise, I prefer to get together outside of office hours if I really want to spend social time with coworkers. I mostly despise forced social interaction on the clock. I do miss whiteboards, but that's about it. I totally respect people who prefer the office life, I was just trying to offer a perspective as someone who is, like, half-aligned with you :)
ddingus 4y ago
Absolutely. "Revenue driving" is one metric. Another one is, "cost reduction", and still another on is overall zeal for the work. A good conversation can hit any and all these metrics. And it all adds right up too. I care about coworkers. When people are able to make it OK, it shows! Tons of small things happen, people helping one another out, feeding off one anothers overall energy, and more really matter! There needs to be laughter, fun, and the good vibes that come from a group of people who understand one another well enough to appreciate the time they spend together. A group like that will have plenty of the business conversations too. First and foremost, they will be comfortable enough around one another to have those chats with few worries. Another thing to keep an eye out on is fear, blame and shame. Much better to boil it down to choices and outcomes. Did we make a bad call? Ok, great. The outcome sacked, so how do we avoid that in the future? Easy conversation that should not worry anyone. Making failure into learning opportunities is another big one. People need to be able to try it whatever it is. And when they can share the experiences and draw own their more seasoned peers, they improve rapidly and feel good about the whole process. I could go on here, but there are just a ton of human dynamics well worth the bit of time and attention needed to insure everyone is able to participate without having fear, blame and shame front and center.
kelnos 4y ago
I've made many lifelong friends from the workplace, but most of those were not made through the course of day-to-day work, but through hanging out after work. Sure, being at an office during the day facilitates that (easy to gather a group of people at the end of the workday to go out for a drink), but that's by no means the only way of doing it. Personally I find the negatives to required office work far worse than the positive of social opportunities in the office. Maybe I'm too biased to have an objective opinion on this (I'm in my early 40s and already made my office friends after years of being required to be in an office), but I would much rather have the flexibility of remote work, which still allows me to meet up with co-workers after work if we choose to do so. I absolutely agree that there's much more friction and inertia that would make those sort of meetups less frequent. But for me, that's a worthwhile trade-off. I think businesses that are embracing remote work should still maintain a (smaller) office where employees can come in when they want to or need to, for whatever reason. Sure, this doesn't work when people are geographically distributed all over the place. But that can also be a choice when looking for a job: just as I might look for an employer that's remote-first, others can look for employers with office cultures.

sodapopcan 4y ago

I'm one of those people who likes to enjoy work--ie, I don't think of work as "just work"--and I want to get to know the people I work with and maybe even make a real friend or two. And yet, I don't ever want to go back to an office. Zoom/Tuple calls are more than sufficient for me for shooting the shit for a bit while on the clock. Otherwise, I prefer to get together outside of office hours if I really want to spend social time with coworkers. I mostly despise forced social interaction on the clock. I do miss whiteboards, but that's about it. I totally respect people who prefer the office life, I was just trying to offer a perspective as someone who is, like, half-aligned with you :)

ddingus 4y ago

Absolutely. "Revenue driving" is one metric. Another one is, "cost reduction", and still another on is overall zeal for the work. A good conversation can hit any and all these metrics. And it all adds right up too. I care about coworkers. When people are able to make it OK, it shows! Tons of small things happen, people helping one another out, feeding off one anothers overall energy, and more really matter! There needs to be laughter, fun, and the good vibes that come from a group of people who understand one another well enough to appreciate the time they spend together. A group like that will have plenty of the business conversations too. First and foremost, they will be comfortable enough around one another to have those chats with few worries. Another thing to keep an eye out on is fear, blame and shame. Much better to boil it down to choices and outcomes. Did we make a bad call? Ok, great. The outcome sacked, so how do we avoid that in the future? Easy conversation that should not worry anyone. Making failure into learning opportunities is another big one. People need to be able to try it whatever it is. And when they can share the experiences and draw own their more seasoned peers, they improve rapidly and feel good about the whole process. I could go on here, but there are just a ton of human dynamics well worth the bit of time and attention needed to insure everyone is able to participate without having fear, blame and shame front and center.

kelnos 4y ago

I've made many lifelong friends from the workplace, but most of those were not made through the course of day-to-day work, but through hanging out after work. Sure, being at an office during the day facilitates that (easy to gather a group of people at the end of the workday to go out for a drink), but that's by no means the only way of doing it. Personally I find the negatives to required office work far worse than the positive of social opportunities in the office. Maybe I'm too biased to have an objective opinion on this (I'm in my early 40s and already made my office friends after years of being required to be in an office), but I would much rather have the flexibility of remote work, which still allows me to meet up with co-workers after work if we choose to do so. I absolutely agree that there's much more friction and inertia that would make those sort of meetups less frequent. But for me, that's a worthwhile trade-off. I think businesses that are embracing remote work should still maintain a (smaller) office where employees can come in when they want to or need to, for whatever reason. Sure, this doesn't work when people are geographically distributed all over the place. But that can also be a choice when looking for a job: just as I might look for an employer that's remote-first, others can look for employers with office cultures.