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"There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes." I've seen this idea repeated many times, but in over 20

"There’s a lot of collaboration and spontaneous connection that happens in hallways and kitchenettes." I've seen this idea repeated many times, but in over 20 years in the tech industry, I've never once seen a meaningful collaboration spring up in a kitchenette or hallway. It's invariably "how was your weekend?" fare. Don't get me wrong, there's value in connecting that way, but it's never the sort of thing that directly leads to any of the productivity gain that the anti-remote crowd would like you to believe.

deafpolygon 4y ago
Same. I don't really collaborate in the hallways, I don't think IT people tend to.
- downrightmike 4y ago
  Probably, because if you do, you get asked to fix something and you're already overloaded with work to do and people can't be bothered to google.
hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago
Moreover, personally I'd prefer it stays this way. When I take a break and go to the kitchen to get a coffee, it is also a part of mental hygiene - I need to clear my mind as it needs some rest, too. So the last thing I want is someone bothering me about a merge request or some planned feature. A weekend trip, on the other hand, is perfectly fine.
- sodapopcan 4y ago
  Hear hear. I worked at a place that pair programmed all the time (I liked it that way—it's why I joined the company) but it meant that I always had to eat lunch at my desk. To me it's crazy to be talking all morning then talk all through lunch then talk all afternoon! But to each their own.
  - kelnos 4y ago
    Wait what? Why does pair programming mean that you have to eat lunch at your desk? You are just as capable of taking a bag lunch to a cafeteria, or going out to eat...
    - sodapopcan 4y ago
      Because I want an hour a silence during the day. Eating in the kitchen means eating with people and having to talk more, or at least listen more.
atsuzaki 4y ago
I scored most (if not all) of my career-defining opportunities from hallway convos after a meeting, or chatting while waiting for coffee to brew, so YMMV.
- Implicated 4y ago
  Question for you to help satisfy my curiosity about this a bit... do you also enjoy socializing in bars or the like?
  - atsuzaki 4y ago
    Not really. I'm very introverted and not good with strangers, actually in the process of getting an autism diagnosis right now. But I really enjoy socializing with folks with similar interests (e.g., tech), and I work with a lot of neurodivergent colleagues which puts less of a strain on my social battery as I don't have to be "normal"---we're all weird and it's fine. Still, my social battery drains quickly nonetheless, I tend to have to leave after hanging out for an hour or two.
- giantg2 4y ago
  This seems wild to me. It seems like the company and managers are doing something wrong if all your advancement is coming from random unofficial chats.
  - guhidalg 4y ago
    Wow where do you work that management has their shit together that well?
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Management doesn't have it together, but they do make suggestions about taking on certain projects etc that are good for your career and at least talk about plans to getting to the next level (sometimes).
    - moremetadata 4y ago
joxel 4y ago
You must work in a boring ass place. We are always talking about ideas to each other. Though I do research so maybe that’s why.
DangerousPie 4y ago
I have had a lot of interesting conversations with colleagues from other teams while grabbing a coffee. Sometimes it's just meaningless small talk about the weekend but sometimes we talk about work and help each other find solutions to problems, or realize we should collaborate. And even if it's just small talk, making those kinds of connections can make it a lot easier to get in touch with them in the future.
sekai 4y ago
> I've seen this idea repeated many times, but in over 20 years in the tech industry Exactly, and how many of those conversations are wasted on nothing? Sure, there's a social element to it, so how about we highlight that aspect and not some "lightbulb" moment that derives from small talk.
- mort96 4y ago
  Conversations which let you get to know your colleagues better are "wasted on nothing" to you? Is there no point to knowing your colleagues?
  - whynaut 4y ago
    there’s no point adding 2+ hours of commuting to my day for what could be a video call. I don’t really understand why many commenters here are expressing a sentiment that you can’t get to know someone digitally. Some of the best people in my life were met online, both personally and professionally.
    - mort96 4y ago
      You don't get coincidental conversations between people of different department with no set agenda through a zoom meeting. I'm not saying it's worth 2+ hours of commuting. And honestly, I think it's bullshit that employers expect commuting time to be unpaid; if having people in the office is something they consider valuable, they should be paying for that commute time. But I reject the idea that those conversations have no value.
      - JohnFen 4y ago
        I accept the idea that those conversations have value. I reject the idea that they can only happen in person. I have no data on this, just my own personal experience and observations over the years.
mort96 4y ago
I have a ton of informal conversations with people I don't have formal meetings with, just because we happen to go to the coffee machine at the same time or happen to go eat lunch at the same time. Some of those conversations are non-job-related (which is valuable, since strong social connections with colleagues are valuable), but a lot end up being on job stuff. I end up just informally talking with sales people, customer service people, managers, etc, and hearing about stuff from their perspective or the stuff that's on their minds is incredibly useful.
MrScruff 4y ago
Completely disagree. I probably have 3 or 4 of these spontaneous conversations that wouldn’t otherwise happen a day when I’m in the office. It might start with ‘what are you working on’ and branch off from there, it’s not just small talk.
- juve1996 4y ago
  Or it could be another negative coworker that wastes your time to complain, gossip, or talk about other employees, or criticize other people. It will be impossible to quantify these "water cooler chats." For as much work gets done, just as much probably doesn't.
nicpottier 4y ago
What? This is a crazy anecdote. I believe you but understand that's not the norm. I have had many and know if others having many as well. Companies that are all remote will survive but they won't thrive and in a competitive market will lose to those that are in person. I say that after running a company that was one or the other at various times. The periods when we were all in person (constantly, not as a special event) is when real innovative progress was made.
leros 4y ago
I would probably say that 95% of my creative problem solving type work happened in unstructured conversations like hallway conversations. A lot of value was definitely lost there.
- ftcHn 4y ago
  +1 Some of my best ideas that ended up being company changing started as a conversation walking to lunch with colleagues. Initially these ideas were just undeveloped thoughts and I would never dream about booking a meeting to present them. Having a chance to develop them in a casual conversation might have been the difference between successfully building the thing and not doing it at all. I love working from home but miss the unstructured collaboration.
  - JohnFen 4y ago
    > Initially these ideas were just undeveloped thoughts and I would never dream about booking a meeting to present them. Your company doesn't have informal communications channels for this sort of thing? Team/Slack/whatever? In every place I've worked for the last 15-20 years (it was different before that), such informal "watercooler" talks have never happened in person, whether everyone was in the office or not. It was always over electronic communications. The reason for this is that it's less disruptive to other productive work.
RestlessMind 4y ago
The most meaningful collaborations I have seen in my 20+ years of work involved a small group of 3 to 5 people huddled around a whiteboard. I can make a list of top 10 collaborations I recollect and none of them were remote interactions. In-person somehow made the collaboration easier.
epistemer 4y ago
It is all bullshit. The problem is that it is obvious how useless and misconfigured our entire corporate management structures are with remote work so the easiest solution is to go back to the office. The pandemic was a fun exercise in forced, real efficiency but we need to get back to the Dilbert cartoon version of life because the Dilbert cartoon characters call the shots and put a ton of time into becoming those characters.

deafpolygon 4y ago

Same. I don't really collaborate in the hallways, I don't think IT people tend to.

downrightmike 4y ago
Probably, because if you do, you get asked to fix something and you're already overloaded with work to do and people can't be bothered to google.

hdjjhhvvhga 4y ago

Moreover, personally I'd prefer it stays this way. When I take a break and go to the kitchen to get a coffee, it is also a part of mental hygiene - I need to clear my mind as it needs some rest, too. So the last thing I want is someone bothering me about a merge request or some planned feature. A weekend trip, on the other hand, is perfectly fine.

sodapopcan 4y ago
Hear hear. I worked at a place that pair programmed all the time (I liked it that way—it's why I joined the company) but it meant that I always had to eat lunch at my desk. To me it's crazy to be talking all morning then talk all through lunch then talk all afternoon! But to each their own.
- kelnos 4y ago
  Wait what? Why does pair programming mean that you have to eat lunch at your desk? You are just as capable of taking a bag lunch to a cafeteria, or going out to eat...
  - sodapopcan 4y ago
    Because I want an hour a silence during the day. Eating in the kitchen means eating with people and having to talk more, or at least listen more.

atsuzaki 4y ago

I scored most (if not all) of my career-defining opportunities from hallway convos after a meeting, or chatting while waiting for coffee to brew, so YMMV.

Implicated 4y ago
Question for you to help satisfy my curiosity about this a bit... do you also enjoy socializing in bars or the like?
- atsuzaki 4y ago
  Not really. I'm very introverted and not good with strangers, actually in the process of getting an autism diagnosis right now. But I really enjoy socializing with folks with similar interests (e.g., tech), and I work with a lot of neurodivergent colleagues which puts less of a strain on my social battery as I don't have to be "normal"---we're all weird and it's fine. Still, my social battery drains quickly nonetheless, I tend to have to leave after hanging out for an hour or two.
giantg2 4y ago
This seems wild to me. It seems like the company and managers are doing something wrong if all your advancement is coming from random unofficial chats.
- guhidalg 4y ago
  Wow where do you work that management has their shit together that well?
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Management doesn't have it together, but they do make suggestions about taking on certain projects etc that are good for your career and at least talk about plans to getting to the next level (sometimes).
  - moremetadata 4y ago

joxel 4y ago

You must work in a boring ass place. We are always talking about ideas to each other. Though I do research so maybe that’s why.

DangerousPie 4y ago

I have had a lot of interesting conversations with colleagues from other teams while grabbing a coffee. Sometimes it's just meaningless small talk about the weekend but sometimes we talk about work and help each other find solutions to problems, or realize we should collaborate. And even if it's just small talk, making those kinds of connections can make it a lot easier to get in touch with them in the future.

sekai 4y ago

> I've seen this idea repeated many times, but in over 20 years in the tech industry Exactly, and how many of those conversations are wasted on nothing? Sure, there's a social element to it, so how about we highlight that aspect and not some "lightbulb" moment that derives from small talk.

mort96 4y ago
Conversations which let you get to know your colleagues better are "wasted on nothing" to you? Is there no point to knowing your colleagues?
- whynaut 4y ago
  there’s no point adding 2+ hours of commuting to my day for what could be a video call. I don’t really understand why many commenters here are expressing a sentiment that you can’t get to know someone digitally. Some of the best people in my life were met online, both personally and professionally.
  - mort96 4y ago
    You don't get coincidental conversations between people of different department with no set agenda through a zoom meeting. I'm not saying it's worth 2+ hours of commuting. And honestly, I think it's bullshit that employers expect commuting time to be unpaid; if having people in the office is something they consider valuable, they should be paying for that commute time. But I reject the idea that those conversations have no value.
    - JohnFen 4y ago
      I accept the idea that those conversations have value. I reject the idea that they can only happen in person. I have no data on this, just my own personal experience and observations over the years.

mort96 4y ago

I have a ton of informal conversations with people I don't have formal meetings with, just because we happen to go to the coffee machine at the same time or happen to go eat lunch at the same time. Some of those conversations are non-job-related (which is valuable, since strong social connections with colleagues are valuable), but a lot end up being on job stuff. I end up just informally talking with sales people, customer service people, managers, etc, and hearing about stuff from their perspective or the stuff that's on their minds is incredibly useful.

MrScruff 4y ago

Completely disagree. I probably have 3 or 4 of these spontaneous conversations that wouldn’t otherwise happen a day when I’m in the office. It might start with ‘what are you working on’ and branch off from there, it’s not just small talk.

juve1996 4y ago
Or it could be another negative coworker that wastes your time to complain, gossip, or talk about other employees, or criticize other people. It will be impossible to quantify these "water cooler chats." For as much work gets done, just as much probably doesn't.

nicpottier 4y ago

What? This is a crazy anecdote. I believe you but understand that's not the norm. I have had many and know if others having many as well. Companies that are all remote will survive but they won't thrive and in a competitive market will lose to those that are in person. I say that after running a company that was one or the other at various times. The periods when we were all in person (constantly, not as a special event) is when real innovative progress was made.

leros 4y ago

I would probably say that 95% of my creative problem solving type work happened in unstructured conversations like hallway conversations. A lot of value was definitely lost there.

ftcHn 4y ago
+1 Some of my best ideas that ended up being company changing started as a conversation walking to lunch with colleagues. Initially these ideas were just undeveloped thoughts and I would never dream about booking a meeting to present them. Having a chance to develop them in a casual conversation might have been the difference between successfully building the thing and not doing it at all. I love working from home but miss the unstructured collaboration.
- JohnFen 4y ago
  > Initially these ideas were just undeveloped thoughts and I would never dream about booking a meeting to present them. Your company doesn't have informal communications channels for this sort of thing? Team/Slack/whatever? In every place I've worked for the last 15-20 years (it was different before that), such informal "watercooler" talks have never happened in person, whether everyone was in the office or not. It was always over electronic communications. The reason for this is that it's less disruptive to other productive work.

RestlessMind 4y ago

The most meaningful collaborations I have seen in my 20+ years of work involved a small group of 3 to 5 people huddled around a whiteboard. I can make a list of top 10 collaborations I recollect and none of them were remote interactions. In-person somehow made the collaboration easier.

epistemer 4y ago

It is all bullshit. The problem is that it is obvious how useless and misconfigured our entire corporate management structures are with remote work so the easiest solution is to go back to the office. The pandemic was a fun exercise in forced, real efficiency but we need to get back to the Dilbert cartoon version of life because the Dilbert cartoon characters call the shots and put a ton of time into becoming those characters.