7 ms·

Man I do get it, cost of labor sucks as a business. It’s always disheartening to me though that it’s just so easy for people to justify undercutting labor in j

Man I do get it, cost of labor sucks as a business. It’s always disheartening to me though that it’s just so easy for people to justify undercutting labor in just a few swift sentences like this, especially because the nuances of culture are very different, for one, and for two, there are downsides to this form of recruitment that never gets acknowledged from issues with time zones to acceptable quality standards and other things. Maybe I’m just old, but it feels almost heartless to be compared by the numbers that someone should just “hire in Latin American because they have less leverage”. Just treat your employees well. No you don’t need to hire in traditionally geographical Silicon Valley areas every time or by default, but you don’t have to go all the way to latam either. I hope people in other areas of the world wise up to this and ask for 1st rate salaries and benefits

mostlysimilar 4y ago
I believe for every person out there like the parent poster there are people like you and I who can hold back that flow. It's incumbent upon us to not give our skills or our time to people who treat us like disposable resources. It's also incumbent upon people like us to build companies and hire people who share those values, and to treat them with dignity and respect.
- junofan 4y ago
  The people who think like that want RTO, which is part of what GP is saying. The disposable resource people champion remote work.
  - 0xB31B1B 4y ago
    Exactly this, the two stable equilibria are “the company is the employees, we all work together in office” and “the company employs labor to solve our customers problems, and the company does this in the most cost effective way possible”.
  - phil21 4y ago
    Yep. This. I can't believe HN zeitgeist cannot understand this. Why would I hire a US employee for twice the cost when I can hire someone 95% as good remotely in a low cost area of the world and actually get an employee that sticks around for a decade vs. a year? It's honestly not even really a decision at this point if you have the management infrastructure in place.
    - bsuvc 4y ago
      > when I can hire someone 95% as good remotely in a low cost area of the world and actually get an employee that sticks around for a decade vs. a year This is fantasy.
      - phil21 4y ago
        It's not. The fantasy is thinking anyone outside the US not taking down $300k/yr is untalented. It's not interesting to discuss outliers. Millions are being made playing this talent/wage arbitrage as we speak. The top 1% of engineers is not interesting to discuss, and certainly is not representative of the average FAANG employee (or salary). Edit: Direct personal experience during my entire working career. Are there bubbles of super-talent completely out of my reach for such a pleb? Absolutely. But those folks are not interesting to the vast majority of companies needing basic but competent IT talent. Many folks here seem to be under the impression they are in that pool. Time will tell.
      - 0xB31B1B 4y ago
        Unless you’re a front of the field AI researcher or have other extremely specific domain knowledge in high demand areas then this is reality, get accustomed to it.
      - onethought 4y ago
        Having done this for over ten years. It’s not. It’s actually way easier than people think.
        bsuvc 4y ago
joyfylbanana 4y ago
> I hope people in other areas of the world wise up to this and ask for 1st rate salaries and benefits LOL. That's totally out of touch. It is not about them "wising up". There are quite lots of different dynamics here at play. It is a complex and competitive market.
golergka 4y ago
> No you don’t need to hire in traditionally geographical Silicon Valley areas every time or by default, but you don’t have to go all the way to latam either. I'm sure all the latin american developers are super hyped about this advice not to hire them.
- no_wizard 4y ago
  It’s not that. It’s about hiring developers with the same divinity and respect across the board. It’s meant as a counter ti the idea of hiring them just because they’re “cheaper”
  - golergka 4y ago
    There's nothing even remotely disrespectful in hiring someone because they offer the services for a cheaper price.

mostlysimilar 4y ago

I believe for every person out there like the parent poster there are people like you and I who can hold back that flow. It's incumbent upon us to not give our skills or our time to people who treat us like disposable resources. It's also incumbent upon people like us to build companies and hire people who share those values, and to treat them with dignity and respect.

junofan 4y ago
The people who think like that want RTO, which is part of what GP is saying. The disposable resource people champion remote work.
- 0xB31B1B 4y ago
  Exactly this, the two stable equilibria are “the company is the employees, we all work together in office” and “the company employs labor to solve our customers problems, and the company does this in the most cost effective way possible”.
- phil21 4y ago
  Yep. This. I can't believe HN zeitgeist cannot understand this. Why would I hire a US employee for twice the cost when I can hire someone 95% as good remotely in a low cost area of the world and actually get an employee that sticks around for a decade vs. a year? It's honestly not even really a decision at this point if you have the management infrastructure in place.
  - bsuvc 4y ago
    > when I can hire someone 95% as good remotely in a low cost area of the world and actually get an employee that sticks around for a decade vs. a year This is fantasy.
    - phil21 4y ago
      It's not. The fantasy is thinking anyone outside the US not taking down $300k/yr is untalented. It's not interesting to discuss outliers. Millions are being made playing this talent/wage arbitrage as we speak. The top 1% of engineers is not interesting to discuss, and certainly is not representative of the average FAANG employee (or salary). Edit: Direct personal experience during my entire working career. Are there bubbles of super-talent completely out of my reach for such a pleb? Absolutely. But those folks are not interesting to the vast majority of companies needing basic but competent IT talent. Many folks here seem to be under the impression they are in that pool. Time will tell.
    - 0xB31B1B 4y ago
      Unless you’re a front of the field AI researcher or have other extremely specific domain knowledge in high demand areas then this is reality, get accustomed to it.
    - onethought 4y ago
      Having done this for over ten years. It’s not. It’s actually way easier than people think.
      - bsuvc 4y ago

joyfylbanana 4y ago

> I hope people in other areas of the world wise up to this and ask for 1st rate salaries and benefits LOL. That's totally out of touch. It is not about them "wising up". There are quite lots of different dynamics here at play. It is a complex and competitive market.

golergka 4y ago

> No you don’t need to hire in traditionally geographical Silicon Valley areas every time or by default, but you don’t have to go all the way to latam either. I'm sure all the latin american developers are super hyped about this advice not to hire them.

no_wizard 4y ago
It’s not that. It’s about hiring developers with the same divinity and respect across the board. It’s meant as a counter ti the idea of hiring them just because they’re “cheaper”
- golergka 4y ago
  There's nothing even remotely disrespectful in hiring someone because they offer the services for a cheaper price.