5 ms·

I found it really hard to relate to any of the characters in the film, to the point where they were barely recognizable as humans. Does it make sense, in a wor

I found it really hard to relate to any of the characters in the film, to the point where they were barely recognizable as humans. Does it make sense, in a world like the one in Gattaca, for a person that is part of a discriminated class, to go into space, instead of trying to change the society around him to be less discriminatory? It seemed to me like the whole effort was a self-motivated, flaccid revenge fantasy that wouldn't make any material difference to the others suffering from discrimination on earth. All of that effort, for what? Anyway, I didn't hate the film, I just found it bizarre, alien-like.

refuse 4y ago
> Does it make sense, in a world like the one in Gattaca, for a person that is part of a discriminated class, to go into space, instead of trying to change the society around him to be less discriminatory? Most people in discriminated classes in the real world don't go out trying to change society.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  ...and the few that attempt to change society almost always fail, or don't live to see the change they fight for in their lifetime.
- beebmam 4y ago
  > Most people in discriminated classes in the real world don't go out trying to change society. What is your evidence for this claim? I'm not as certain as you that a majority of people in discriminated classes don't try to change their society for the better. Maybe it depends on exactly what you mean by "change society", but at least for me, I see even small discussions like the one we're having here as potentially changing society. By the way, I'm curious, and please correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm not trying to misrepresent your beliefs): Are you making a normative claim here too, like "Discriminated classes shouldn't try to change their societies"?
bequanna 4y ago
> Does it make sense, in a world like the one in Gattaca, for a person that is part of a discriminated class, to go into space, instead of trying to change the society around him to be less discriminatory? I think this is a little naive. Why should every member of an underclass have to fight the good fight vs improve their own personal position? IMO, the latter is much more likely.
- mixmastamyk 4y ago
  And when the news gets out a underclass achieved something great it may change things.
  - skeeter2020 4y ago
    definitely - look at sports, academics, etc. Once something "impossible" gets completed, it gets repeated more frequently and widely than you'd expect.
  - sangnoir 4y ago
    History is filled with counterexamples. Discriminated people who do great things are discounted as once-offs, ceremonially inducted into the in-group or ignored entirely.
    - mixmastamyk 4y ago
      It’s also filled with pro-examples.
chordalkeyboard 4y ago
> Does it make sense, in a world like the one in Gattaca, for a person that is part of a discriminated class, to go into space, instead of trying to change the society around him to be less discriminatory? Yes, it absolutely makes sense for one lone individual to pursue self-actualization against the odds rather than embark on a crusade to remake the world around him against even greater odds.
- naasking 4y ago
  Moreover, systemic change results from lots of stories like this piling up, proving that the underlying narrative driving the discrimination was always false.
RedShift1 4y ago
Why can't things be self-motivated? Not every story has to be about changing society...
- beebmam 4y ago
  Of course, and that's totally fine! I'm glad the film was made, and like I said, I didn't hate the film. I was just commenting on my own perspective on the film: that it was unrelatable for me.
pfortuny 4y ago
One is not obliged to do the best thing possible, or even to choose the “better” thing, as long as one does good.
curiousgal 4y ago
lol how exactly do you expect him to change things if he stayed? Once he's back he'll be able to actually make a difference with the status/resources he got by leaving.
- whatshisface 4y ago
  It tells you something about HN that there are like ten replies arguing that he should have the right to be selfish, and only one that recognizes that he was doing exactly what people from minorities did in the past to overturn the belief that they couldn't do anything.
  - curiousgal 4y ago
    I think the reason is because I am an actual mintority who is doing the same thing. It's exactly why I relate to the movie despite being a woman.
    - InspiredIdiot 4y ago
      I'm glad you relate to it because it is amazing but if there is one criticism I could level, it is that the only female character seems like she is ~drugged~ for most of the movie. Uma Thurman is a good actress so I have to assume it was the direction/script. Edit. Sorry, I was getting hyperbolic. There just isn't much development of her character so it is hard to see what the relationship between her and Ethan Hawke's character is even based on.
      - whatshisface 4y ago
        She was written that way to show what effects their cultural expectations would have on somebody's emotional expressiveness.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - 4y ago
skeeter2020 4y ago
if you are broadly discriminated against I think it makes perfect sense that you focus on one, important thing and try to overcome that. Otherwise you'll just continually be beat down and get nowhere. I think the film does a good job showing this realistic path.
InspiredIdiot 4y ago
In my imagined ending he _does_ die in space, but after accomplishing something great and as a result the obstacles he overcame to get there become known and contribute to the very slow process of realigning society.

refuse 4y ago

> Does it make sense, in a world like the one in Gattaca, for a person that is part of a discriminated class, to go into space, instead of trying to change the society around him to be less discriminatory? Most people in discriminated classes in the real world don't go out trying to change society.

sangnoir 4y ago
...and the few that attempt to change society almost always fail, or don't live to see the change they fight for in their lifetime.
beebmam 4y ago
> Most people in discriminated classes in the real world don't go out trying to change society. What is your evidence for this claim? I'm not as certain as you that a majority of people in discriminated classes don't try to change their society for the better. Maybe it depends on exactly what you mean by "change society", but at least for me, I see even small discussions like the one we're having here as potentially changing society. By the way, I'm curious, and please correct me if I'm wrong (as I'm not trying to misrepresent your beliefs): Are you making a normative claim here too, like "Discriminated classes shouldn't try to change their societies"?

bequanna 4y ago

> Does it make sense, in a world like the one in Gattaca, for a person that is part of a discriminated class, to go into space, instead of trying to change the society around him to be less discriminatory? I think this is a little naive. Why should every member of an underclass have to fight the good fight vs improve their own personal position? IMO, the latter is much more likely.

mixmastamyk 4y ago
And when the news gets out a underclass achieved something great it may change things.
- skeeter2020 4y ago
  definitely - look at sports, academics, etc. Once something "impossible" gets completed, it gets repeated more frequently and widely than you'd expect.
- sangnoir 4y ago
  History is filled with counterexamples. Discriminated people who do great things are discounted as once-offs, ceremonially inducted into the in-group or ignored entirely.
  - mixmastamyk 4y ago
    It’s also filled with pro-examples.

chordalkeyboard 4y ago

> Does it make sense, in a world like the one in Gattaca, for a person that is part of a discriminated class, to go into space, instead of trying to change the society around him to be less discriminatory? Yes, it absolutely makes sense for one lone individual to pursue self-actualization against the odds rather than embark on a crusade to remake the world around him against even greater odds.

naasking 4y ago
Moreover, systemic change results from lots of stories like this piling up, proving that the underlying narrative driving the discrimination was always false.

RedShift1 4y ago

Why can't things be self-motivated? Not every story has to be about changing society...

beebmam 4y ago
Of course, and that's totally fine! I'm glad the film was made, and like I said, I didn't hate the film. I was just commenting on my own perspective on the film: that it was unrelatable for me.

pfortuny 4y ago

One is not obliged to do the best thing possible, or even to choose the “better” thing, as long as one does good.

curiousgal 4y ago

lol how exactly do you expect him to change things if he stayed? Once he's back he'll be able to actually make a difference with the status/resources he got by leaving.

whatshisface 4y ago
It tells you something about HN that there are like ten replies arguing that he should have the right to be selfish, and only one that recognizes that he was doing exactly what people from minorities did in the past to overturn the belief that they couldn't do anything.
- curiousgal 4y ago
  I think the reason is because I am an actual mintority who is doing the same thing. It's exactly why I relate to the movie despite being a woman.
  - InspiredIdiot 4y ago
    I'm glad you relate to it because it is amazing but if there is one criticism I could level, it is that the only female character seems like she is ~drugged~ for most of the movie. Uma Thurman is a good actress so I have to assume it was the direction/script. Edit. Sorry, I was getting hyperbolic. There just isn't much development of her character so it is hard to see what the relationship between her and Ethan Hawke's character is even based on.
    - whatshisface 4y ago
      She was written that way to show what effects their cultural expectations would have on somebody's emotional expressiveness.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - 4y ago

skeeter2020 4y ago

if you are broadly discriminated against I think it makes perfect sense that you focus on one, important thing and try to overcome that. Otherwise you'll just continually be beat down and get nowhere. I think the film does a good job showing this realistic path.

InspiredIdiot 4y ago

In my imagined ending he _does_ die in space, but after accomplishing something great and as a result the obstacles he overcame to get there become known and contribute to the very slow process of realigning society.