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The unfortunate outcomes of these events is that, like a ratchet, it just gets harder and harder for ordinary citizens to go about their lives. It used to be t

The unfortunate outcomes of these events is that, like a ratchet, it just gets harder and harder for ordinary citizens to go about their lives. It used to be that you could just walk into a bank and open an account on the spot. And it's still like that in many developing countries. It's now at the point that just having a bank account is becoming an asset in itself. It's an increasingly major process to open one, and the sense of certainty that your money is actually safe there, and you won't wake up one day to see your money frozen, declines every year that passes. This goes doubly if you're a foreigner. The amount of delays and paperwork I've had to deal with to have and maintain a bank account is just ridiculous. At some point they're going to need personal attestations from your 12 closest of kin, and a blood sample. And yet what difference has it all made? With all the KYC nonsense that we all now have to wade through, you still hear regular news of huge successful money laundering operations happening in developed countries.

ur-whale 4y ago
I agree with you very much. And you're not even touching the other part, which is that when you get in the cross-hair of the authorities (even if they happen to have a legitimate reason, which more often than not, they don't) your money can cease to be yours in the blink of an eye, leaving you with absolutely no means to defend yourself. We need far better legal protection for our assets than what currently exist in most so-called civilized countries. I would go as far as saying that the right to protect your assets from anyone is as deeply important than the right to free speech. And this is why crypto, in spite of all its purported shortcomings, holds such a deep gut appeal to very many people: at an instinctive level, they can feel it's the last resort to protecting your freedom from the predatory institutions that are supposed to be protecting them.
- csomar 4y ago
  > cross-hair of the authorities (even if they happen to have a legitimate reason, which more often than not, they don't) your money can cease to be yours in the blink of an eye, leaving you with absolutely no means to defend yourself. It's worse than that. Fintech can freeze your money at their sole discretion. It's a puzzle to get the money unfrozen. My guess is that banks will be next, although they seem to do better now. But this practice is protected by the law.
csomar 4y ago
I'm not sure if it's a conspiracy to control the public, or simply regulators being irresponsibly incompetent that it can be considered criminal. Most of the KYCs in the developing world can be ignored by handing $50-200 over to the right couple of people. Most of KYCs in the developed world will be handled by specialized "consultants" who will handle the paper work and deliver the needed banking services. It's the same thing but it costs more in the developed world, huh. I'm glad you brought this up as I am at loss how most of the people accept this sad state of affairs.
sygirgafhi 4y ago
I have a Schwab account I made online and had to deal with basically 0 humans to create. The worst I have to deal with is sometimes if I spend a lot at once I have to answer some automated questions to confirm my information hasn't been stolen. How do you reconcile this with the claim it's getting "harder and harder" when the bar to open and access a bank account is so low?
- buildbuildbuild 4y ago
  For the ~95% I think banking must be smooth or there would be great outcry. In my experience the risk of becoming unbanked, even temporarily, has become worse and worse for the increasing number of “outliers”: - a common name - previous victims of identity theft or doxxing - legal domestic cryptocurrency exchange use - privacy-minded people (VPN use, even accidental) - nomadic lifestyles (lots of IPs, a VOIP number) - a cash-first lifestyle - any negative credit or public records irrespective of time passed - bad press about you out there (yes, some products screen for this)
  - irusensei 4y ago
    - you have the wrong passport
Marsymars 4y ago
> It's an increasingly major process to open one No disagreements with your post otherwise, but I haven’t found this to be the case personally. I’ve opened two bank accounts in the past year without much hassle - one a joint account at a big bank with my partner that we were able to do fairly painlessly from our house. (Opening account in her name was online, but then we had to call in for someone to manually add me to it while we were both present for security purposes.) The other at a credit union just last week - I showed them my driver’s license, answered a few questions about what products I was interested in, bought a share, and walked out with a bank card.
- rationalist 4y ago
  Which credit union? All the ones I've encountered incorrectly state that they require Social Security Numbers by law. The law only requires that they have a numerical identifier, so a state ID/license should work as it apparently did in your case. Edit: I guess the downvotes are for assuming everyone's in the U.S., sorry!
  - Marsymars 4y ago
    Servus, it’s a credit union in Alberta/Canada.
- citrin_ru 4y ago
  Try to move to another country. Take e. g. the UK. To open a bank account you need a proof of you address in the UK like an utility bill (or anther's bank statement). To rent a flat you need a bank account because most agencies/landlords don't accept cash and would ask you to wire a holding deposit/rent/fees. Catch22. And the government in most cases knows you address anyway.
edgyquant 4y ago
My girlfriend and I opened a shared bank account in December. It was five minutes in the capital one app and we had a debit card less than a week later. I’ve personally opened 4 bank accounts (including that one) through 3 different banks over the last two years and each time was a similar process. What world do you live in where opening a bank account is somehow getting more difficult instead of extremely less?

ur-whale 4y ago

I agree with you very much. And you're not even touching the other part, which is that when you get in the cross-hair of the authorities (even if they happen to have a legitimate reason, which more often than not, they don't) your money can cease to be yours in the blink of an eye, leaving you with absolutely no means to defend yourself. We need far better legal protection for our assets than what currently exist in most so-called civilized countries. I would go as far as saying that the right to protect your assets from anyone is as deeply important than the right to free speech. And this is why crypto, in spite of all its purported shortcomings, holds such a deep gut appeal to very many people: at an instinctive level, they can feel it's the last resort to protecting your freedom from the predatory institutions that are supposed to be protecting them.

csomar 4y ago
> cross-hair of the authorities (even if they happen to have a legitimate reason, which more often than not, they don't) your money can cease to be yours in the blink of an eye, leaving you with absolutely no means to defend yourself. It's worse than that. Fintech can freeze your money at their sole discretion. It's a puzzle to get the money unfrozen. My guess is that banks will be next, although they seem to do better now. But this practice is protected by the law.

csomar 4y ago

I'm not sure if it's a conspiracy to control the public, or simply regulators being irresponsibly incompetent that it can be considered criminal. Most of the KYCs in the developing world can be ignored by handing $50-200 over to the right couple of people. Most of KYCs in the developed world will be handled by specialized "consultants" who will handle the paper work and deliver the needed banking services. It's the same thing but it costs more in the developed world, huh. I'm glad you brought this up as I am at loss how most of the people accept this sad state of affairs.

sygirgafhi 4y ago

I have a Schwab account I made online and had to deal with basically 0 humans to create. The worst I have to deal with is sometimes if I spend a lot at once I have to answer some automated questions to confirm my information hasn't been stolen. How do you reconcile this with the claim it's getting "harder and harder" when the bar to open and access a bank account is so low?

buildbuildbuild 4y ago
For the ~95% I think banking must be smooth or there would be great outcry. In my experience the risk of becoming unbanked, even temporarily, has become worse and worse for the increasing number of “outliers”: - a common name - previous victims of identity theft or doxxing - legal domestic cryptocurrency exchange use - privacy-minded people (VPN use, even accidental) - nomadic lifestyles (lots of IPs, a VOIP number) - a cash-first lifestyle - any negative credit or public records irrespective of time passed - bad press about you out there (yes, some products screen for this)
- irusensei 4y ago
  - you have the wrong passport

Marsymars 4y ago

> It's an increasingly major process to open one No disagreements with your post otherwise, but I haven’t found this to be the case personally. I’ve opened two bank accounts in the past year without much hassle - one a joint account at a big bank with my partner that we were able to do fairly painlessly from our house. (Opening account in her name was online, but then we had to call in for someone to manually add me to it while we were both present for security purposes.) The other at a credit union just last week - I showed them my driver’s license, answered a few questions about what products I was interested in, bought a share, and walked out with a bank card.

rationalist 4y ago
Which credit union? All the ones I've encountered incorrectly state that they require Social Security Numbers by law. The law only requires that they have a numerical identifier, so a state ID/license should work as it apparently did in your case. Edit: I guess the downvotes are for assuming everyone's in the U.S., sorry!
- Marsymars 4y ago
  Servus, it’s a credit union in Alberta/Canada.
citrin_ru 4y ago
Try to move to another country. Take e. g. the UK. To open a bank account you need a proof of you address in the UK like an utility bill (or anther's bank statement). To rent a flat you need a bank account because most agencies/landlords don't accept cash and would ask you to wire a holding deposit/rent/fees. Catch22. And the government in most cases knows you address anyway.

edgyquant 4y ago

My girlfriend and I opened a shared bank account in December. It was five minutes in the capital one app and we had a debit card less than a week later. I’ve personally opened 4 bank accounts (including that one) through 3 different banks over the last two years and each time was a similar process. What world do you live in where opening a bank account is somehow getting more difficult instead of extremely less?