4 ms·

shouldn't there be a normally priced equivalent product on the market? it's not like we're talking about cutting edge silicon here

by kubb 4y ago

smoldesu 4y ago
There are. Much like the Disney analogy, there are other cheaper theme parks on the market. The OP-1 is "unique" though, in the sense that (thankfully) nobody else is making a 4-track digital tape recorder anymore. There are hundreds of products like it, but much like the Star Wars hotel, nobody is dumb/rich enough to build a replica of Disney's attraction. I could name a dozen grooveboxes that can be had for under $300 today, but it's all sorta besides the point. People want the OP-1 because it's what they see on YouTube, not because it makes music. Considering how long the product has stagnated, I see no reason that it should cost as much as it does today.
- bondarchuk 4y ago
  What are the options with similar portability, sampling, synthesis, fx, and multitrack recording, that you can buy new, and is not just an ipad or something, for under 300 dollars?
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    You've sorta missed my analogy. You can get a Novation Circuit, Electribe or even a brand-new Model: Samples for less than $300, but none of them are the "Star Wars Hotel" that the OP-1 is. I could show you a product that is exactly the same and cost's half as much, but people will balk at it complaining that it doesn't have a cow animation like the OP-1 does. They've "productized" an instrument that shouldn't cost more than $200 to manufacture at their scale. I'm mostly mad at how consistently stupid their target audience is, not the fact that they exist.
    - bondarchuk 4y ago
      >I could show you a product that is exactly the same and cost's half as much Show it, then. (and btw "half as much" is significantly more than "under 300 dollars") >but people will balk at it complaining that it doesn't have a cow animation like the OP-1 does. Probably I will complain that it lacks synthesis, a multitrack recorder capable of making long tracks, an input for sampling, or something. (I agree the animations in TE stuff are silly though).
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        The OP-1's synthesis engine is so stiff that I'd argue it doesn't have one either. It's subtractive synth may as well be sample-based, the FM model is fine but incredibly simple, the Karpluss-Strong engine is fun but one-note and the sampler doesn't really fill in the rest of the cracks. It's a fine machine, but arguing that it's both a synth and a multitrack recorder ignores the fact that both of those features are pretty compromised. I posted some examples of cheap, shitty grooveboxes I would prefer to the OP-1 in another comment below. Understandably not all of them will be to everyone's liking, but all of them are cheaper than the OP-1 and easier for me to recommend to learning musicians.
    - sussmannbaka 4y ago
      I am also interested in the $300-500 all-in-one groovebox rivaling the OP-1 (without cow animation)
      - selykg 4y ago
        Same, show me what’s out there.
        smoldesu 4y ago
        - Elektron Model: Samples - Novation Circuit - Roland MC-101 - Korg Electribe - Used Digitakt - (God forbid) Teenage Engineering OP-Z The list goes on but those are the big names. Again, I'm mostly fascinated that such a nothingburger company like TE can capture the hearts of rich people everywhere. Maybe it just goes to show that the most successful businesses aren't the ones with the best products, but with the most effective marketing and highest sex appeal.
        psychomugs 4y ago
        >the most successful businesses aren't the ones with the best products, but with the most effective marketing and highest sex appeal. This goes without saying. Also, having owned/used over half of those on the list, none of them emulate the tape functionality, which is arguably the OP-1's killer feature in the same way that the sequencer is the OP-Z's.
        prmoustache 4y ago
        I am not an OP-1 user nor am I a TE fanboy but I owned a Model:Samples and the simple fact that you cannot even sample on it and it doesn't have any synth capabilities cannot make it a candidate. The digitakt is not a synth either. Same with original Novation circuit and with Novation you'd have to buy both the circuit track and the circuit rhythm if my memory is correct to be able to both record/sample and use a synth. MC-101 seems completely different in term of ergonomics. I wouldn't say any of them would be an alternative. I think OP-1 is overpriced because there is nothing like it. I mean a secondhand laptop with a 69$ daw such as Reaper can do more, an MPC is more complete. But people who see the appeal of the OP-1 probably already have a computer and a DAW so this is not what they are looking for. They want a toy to make music. I am not in the market for such a thing but I guess it is not that overpriced if some people are willing to buy it at this price.
    - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
      It's not $300, but the SP404 MK2 is sweet
      - vitaflo 4y ago
        Agreed, and the MPC One is an amazing value for all it can do.
        zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
        I really want a Pioneer Toraiz SP-16 but can't justify it to myself because I really don't need it
  - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
    > and is not just an ipad or something That's the rub. I have no interest in the TE stuff (or, for that matter, most other manufacturer's stuff), but what we can do on our hosts, these days, is amazing. I remember using a Tascam recorder for our sessions, where you keep remixing tracks, until the hiss becomes your "signature sound." Nowadays, you can have a 24-track, digital system on your handheld, for peanuts.
    - schrijver 4y ago
      Right, these products don’t work for me because their interfaces reproduce what was bad about 1980ies technology: small screens, shift buttons to enable multiple functions, lots of conventions you have to learn by heart. DAW’s are so much easier to use! That’s not to say I don’t like physical hardware—it makes so much sense for analog synths, mixing desks, guitar pedals etc. or whatever instrument where you have a nice chunky button for each function.

shouldn't there be a normally priced equivalent product on the market? it's not like we're talking about cutting edge silicon here

by kubb 4y ago

shouldn't there be a normally priced equivalent product on the market? it's not like we're talking about cutting edge silicon here

smoldesu 4y ago

There are. Much like the Disney analogy, there are other cheaper theme parks on the market. The OP-1 is "unique" though, in the sense that (thankfully) nobody else is making a 4-track digital tape recorder anymore. There are hundreds of products like it, but much like the Star Wars hotel, nobody is dumb/rich enough to build a replica of Disney's attraction. I could name a dozen grooveboxes that can be had for under $300 today, but it's all sorta besides the point. People want the OP-1 because it's what they see on YouTube, not because it makes music. Considering how long the product has stagnated, I see no reason that it should cost as much as it does today.

bondarchuk 4y ago
What are the options with similar portability, sampling, synthesis, fx, and multitrack recording, that you can buy new, and is not just an ipad or something, for under 300 dollars?
- smoldesu 4y ago
  You've sorta missed my analogy. You can get a Novation Circuit, Electribe or even a brand-new Model: Samples for less than $300, but none of them are the "Star Wars Hotel" that the OP-1 is. I could show you a product that is exactly the same and cost's half as much, but people will balk at it complaining that it doesn't have a cow animation like the OP-1 does. They've "productized" an instrument that shouldn't cost more than $200 to manufacture at their scale. I'm mostly mad at how consistently stupid their target audience is, not the fact that they exist.
  - bondarchuk 4y ago
    >I could show you a product that is exactly the same and cost's half as much Show it, then. (and btw "half as much" is significantly more than "under 300 dollars") >but people will balk at it complaining that it doesn't have a cow animation like the OP-1 does. Probably I will complain that it lacks synthesis, a multitrack recorder capable of making long tracks, an input for sampling, or something. (I agree the animations in TE stuff are silly though).
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      The OP-1's synthesis engine is so stiff that I'd argue it doesn't have one either. It's subtractive synth may as well be sample-based, the FM model is fine but incredibly simple, the Karpluss-Strong engine is fun but one-note and the sampler doesn't really fill in the rest of the cracks. It's a fine machine, but arguing that it's both a synth and a multitrack recorder ignores the fact that both of those features are pretty compromised. I posted some examples of cheap, shitty grooveboxes I would prefer to the OP-1 in another comment below. Understandably not all of them will be to everyone's liking, but all of them are cheaper than the OP-1 and easier for me to recommend to learning musicians.
  - sussmannbaka 4y ago
    I am also interested in the $300-500 all-in-one groovebox rivaling the OP-1 (without cow animation)
    - selykg 4y ago
      Same, show me what’s out there.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        - Elektron Model: Samples - Novation Circuit - Roland MC-101 - Korg Electribe - Used Digitakt - (God forbid) Teenage Engineering OP-Z The list goes on but those are the big names. Again, I'm mostly fascinated that such a nothingburger company like TE can capture the hearts of rich people everywhere. Maybe it just goes to show that the most successful businesses aren't the ones with the best products, but with the most effective marketing and highest sex appeal.
        psychomugs 4y ago
        >the most successful businesses aren't the ones with the best products, but with the most effective marketing and highest sex appeal. This goes without saying. Also, having owned/used over half of those on the list, none of them emulate the tape functionality, which is arguably the OP-1's killer feature in the same way that the sequencer is the OP-Z's.
        prmoustache 4y ago
        I am not an OP-1 user nor am I a TE fanboy but I owned a Model:Samples and the simple fact that you cannot even sample on it and it doesn't have any synth capabilities cannot make it a candidate. The digitakt is not a synth either. Same with original Novation circuit and with Novation you'd have to buy both the circuit track and the circuit rhythm if my memory is correct to be able to both record/sample and use a synth. MC-101 seems completely different in term of ergonomics. I wouldn't say any of them would be an alternative. I think OP-1 is overpriced because there is nothing like it. I mean a secondhand laptop with a 69$ daw such as Reaper can do more, an MPC is more complete. But people who see the appeal of the OP-1 probably already have a computer and a DAW so this is not what they are looking for. They want a toy to make music. I am not in the market for such a thing but I guess it is not that overpriced if some people are willing to buy it at this price.
  - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
    It's not $300, but the SP404 MK2 is sweet
    - vitaflo 4y ago
      Agreed, and the MPC One is an amazing value for all it can do.
      - zoklet-enjoyer 4y ago
        I really want a Pioneer Toraiz SP-16 but can't justify it to myself because I really don't need it
- ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
  > and is not just an ipad or something That's the rub. I have no interest in the TE stuff (or, for that matter, most other manufacturer's stuff), but what we can do on our hosts, these days, is amazing. I remember using a Tascam recorder for our sessions, where you keep remixing tracks, until the hiss becomes your "signature sound." Nowadays, you can have a 24-track, digital system on your handheld, for peanuts.
  - schrijver 4y ago
    Right, these products don’t work for me because their interfaces reproduce what was bad about 1980ies technology: small screens, shift buttons to enable multiple functions, lots of conventions you have to learn by heart. DAW’s are so much easier to use! That’s not to say I don’t like physical hardware—it makes so much sense for analog synths, mixing desks, guitar pedals etc. or whatever instrument where you have a nice chunky button for each function.