8 ms·

Interesting subtitling of a video from the 1950s

44 points by _448 4y ago

I was watching a video[0] lecture about the UK NHS crisis from the 1951. In that lecture the presenter showed a video of a speech (starts at 6mins 10secs in to the lecture). There are subtitles to that speech; I have never seen such interesting subtitling. Even the coughing and laughing etc from the audience is subtitled :) [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVwpzJw1vwo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVwpzJw1vwo

gus_massa 4y ago
Direct link with time for the lazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVwpzJw1vwo&t=371s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVwpzJw1vwo&t=371s It's a interesting and strange format that I also have never seen. Anyway, some films/videos have subtitles with a description of all sounds. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning#Terminology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning#Terminology > In the United States and Canada, the terms subtitles and captions have different meanings. Subtitles assume the viewer can hear but cannot understand the language or accent, or the speech is not entirely clear, so they transcribe only dialogue and some on-screen text. Captions aim to describe to the deaf and hard of hearing all significant audio content—spoken dialogue and non-speech information such as the identity of speakers and, occasionally, their manner of speaking—along with any significant music or sound effects using words or symbols.
- ralferoo 4y ago
  In the UK, we use the term subtitles only for the words spoken and Audio Description (often abbreviated to AD) for what you described. Subtitles are sometimes in different colours if there are multiple speakers, and a character will then usually have the same colour for the duration of the program. If it's not really ambiguous, they will all just be coloured white.
- zzo38computer 4y ago
  I watch with captions, too. I have some opinions about it. Captions can be useful for many reasons, including: - Deaf or hard of hearing. - Even if you can hear OK, but someone else is talking at the same time or if the TV is muted. - If you want to know the spelling of the words (especially if it is something unusual such as a character's name). - If they are speech in multiple languages. - If some sound is too quiet to be noticeable. - If you like to read it even though you can hear it OK (having it two ways might be what some people like, including myself). - To make transcripts or caption scrollback. What I think would be better is: - Write all speech, regardless of the language. Foreign speech can be either written in that language, or translated to the language of the captions and adding a note about it. - If text is on the screen and is being read (e.g. Jeopardy! clues), make hidden captions (I don't know if this can be done, but it ought to be possible to be done). This way, they will still be available in transcripts (or caption scrollback, but as far as I know nothing implements this). - In some cases, even if text is being read on screen, you may wish to make non-hidden captions if the pronounciation is relevant to the plot and an unusual way to pronounce that word (or is relevant to the plot but is not in the dictionary, e.g. someone's name which is not so easy to understand how to pronounce when it is written down). - Use closed captions instead of open captions, regardless of the language. Open captions cannot be turned off and the font cannot be adjusted (which might make them hard to read, or obscure a part of the picture). - If you do not know what someone says because it is unclear, refer to the script, or if there is no script, ask the people in the show, if possible. - Only significant sound effects (and tone of voice, etc) should be mentioned in the captions. Any sound effects, tone of voice, etc which are not significant should be omitted. (For example, "male announcer reads text on screen" is not significant for the messages between TV shows, but may sometimes be significant within a TV show, if it is a part of the plot, perhaps.) - Ensure that you know the spelling of the names of the characters and other unusual things, when writing it. This way, any viewer who turns on the captions will know how to spell their name, too. - If there is a long music that is prominent in the show, write the name of music in the captions. This way, if a viewer has both captions and sound on, and does not know what the music is called, then they can learn. - In some cases, you may wish to include something even if it is not really relevant to the plot because the audience is not expected to know if it is or not, at that point in the story. Likewise, you can exclude something for similar reasons (e.g. a character whose name has not been mentioned yet, and is revealed later). - Do not code the captions incorrectly. (Sometimes they are incorrect, causing problems with the display.) I have seen most the above things sometimes, but not always; they are inconsistent and often do not do a good job, but sometimes it is good. Another note: on DVD video, the way that subtitles and captions are different, is different than your description. On DVD video, captions are stored as text (and the user can adjust the fonts) and subtitles are stored as pictures with indexed colours (I have not seen any DVD player that you can adjust the colours or translucency of subtitles, even though it seems to me that it should be possible to do).
abejfehr 4y ago
This feels like a lyric video, but instead of music it's a clip of speech. I don't think it's that unique, but annotating the coughs and laughter is pretty good
iamevn 4y ago
This sort of thing is generally referred to as "Kinetic Typography". For example: https://youtu.be/U4rwlvMEoj0 https://youtu.be/U4rwlvMEoj0
Maursault 4y ago
The video shows neither subtitles nor captions, because the "film" displayed is nothing more than a frozen still picture slide over which what is more accurately known as an audio text transcription is creatively displayed employing kinetic typography.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_typography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_typography
- betimsl 4y ago
  Also, I believe that this is not done at the time, but later with a computer
muzani 4y ago
I think it's cool. Several decades ago, I was hooked on this game, Betrayal at Krondor, which did some really nice stuff with fonts that really brought out the tone of the conversation. It feels a bit like a lost art. It's not used for subtitling much anymore because of how everyone has the resources to put actual voice acting in everything. But I like my games and videos on mute because of all the noise pollution, so I'd love to see more of this.
- genewitch 4y ago
  It's been a while since i've played a game that didn't have at least cinematic subtitles, if not every spoken word. I can't remember the first game i played that did it well, but it was probably Morrowind.
deafpolygon 4y ago
As a deaf person, I don't like this style.
Luc 4y ago
From reading your description I assumed the dynamic text would have been generated in the ‘50s using some cool optics, but it’s clearly recent and done in software.
aaron695 4y ago
[dead]
mgdlbp 4y ago
'Picsub' came to mind, referring to subtitles and slides that accompany something originally audio-only. ...But looking it up, it seems the term is actually a nonce only ever used to describe one particular fansub of the type (for a comedy audio drama from the Evangelion franchise, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvLfQSoVhrM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvLfQSoVhrM) (indeed, the creator describes[1] why it was coined, and that the use of character portraits was inspired by video games — as sibling mentions, another place to find interesting colours and fonts in subtitles. And anime fansubs aside, I've also seen colour-coded official subs from several countries (must be a list of standards somewhere), e.g. this series on Dutch public TV that you can probably officially watch, because of lax DRM [2] Now, to somehow tie all that together, a Russian Evangelion cosplay skit with English colour-coded subtitles— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kn76Rc2aa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kn76Rc2aa0 [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20030320153637/http://www.absolutedestiny.org/picsub.html https://web.archive.org/web/20030320153637/http://www.absolu... [2] https://www.npostart.nl/de-slet-van-6-vwo/05-07-2021/AT_2160157 https://www.npostart.nl/de-slet-van-6-vwo/05-07-2021/AT_2160...)
Dr_ReD 4y ago
This kind of Kinetic Typography was a staple of the Scala Video Titler for the Amiga, first and of Adobe After Effects for the PC, later. After a while it became a bit boring because everyone was doing it everywhere, but to see it now, done so well, so much time before, and with only analog equipment, it is really inspiring.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
richij 4y ago
The original is from an installation at the People's History Museum in Manchester: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAyUxY0Cm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAyUxY0Cm0

44 points by _448 4y ago

gus_massa 4y ago

Direct link with time for the lazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVwpzJw1vwo&t=371s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVwpzJw1vwo&t=371s It's a interesting and strange format that I also have never seen. Anyway, some films/videos have subtitles with a description of all sounds. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning#Terminology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_captioning#Terminology > In the United States and Canada, the terms subtitles and captions have different meanings. Subtitles assume the viewer can hear but cannot understand the language or accent, or the speech is not entirely clear, so they transcribe only dialogue and some on-screen text. Captions aim to describe to the deaf and hard of hearing all significant audio content—spoken dialogue and non-speech information such as the identity of speakers and, occasionally, their manner of speaking—along with any significant music or sound effects using words or symbols.

ralferoo 4y ago
In the UK, we use the term subtitles only for the words spoken and Audio Description (often abbreviated to AD) for what you described. Subtitles are sometimes in different colours if there are multiple speakers, and a character will then usually have the same colour for the duration of the program. If it's not really ambiguous, they will all just be coloured white.
zzo38computer 4y ago
I watch with captions, too. I have some opinions about it. Captions can be useful for many reasons, including: - Deaf or hard of hearing. - Even if you can hear OK, but someone else is talking at the same time or if the TV is muted. - If you want to know the spelling of the words (especially if it is something unusual such as a character's name). - If they are speech in multiple languages. - If some sound is too quiet to be noticeable. - If you like to read it even though you can hear it OK (having it two ways might be what some people like, including myself). - To make transcripts or caption scrollback. What I think would be better is: - Write all speech, regardless of the language. Foreign speech can be either written in that language, or translated to the language of the captions and adding a note about it. - If text is on the screen and is being read (e.g. Jeopardy! clues), make hidden captions (I don't know if this can be done, but it ought to be possible to be done). This way, they will still be available in transcripts (or caption scrollback, but as far as I know nothing implements this). - In some cases, even if text is being read on screen, you may wish to make non-hidden captions if the pronounciation is relevant to the plot and an unusual way to pronounce that word (or is relevant to the plot but is not in the dictionary, e.g. someone's name which is not so easy to understand how to pronounce when it is written down). - Use closed captions instead of open captions, regardless of the language. Open captions cannot be turned off and the font cannot be adjusted (which might make them hard to read, or obscure a part of the picture). - If you do not know what someone says because it is unclear, refer to the script, or if there is no script, ask the people in the show, if possible. - Only significant sound effects (and tone of voice, etc) should be mentioned in the captions. Any sound effects, tone of voice, etc which are not significant should be omitted. (For example, "male announcer reads text on screen" is not significant for the messages between TV shows, but may sometimes be significant within a TV show, if it is a part of the plot, perhaps.) - Ensure that you know the spelling of the names of the characters and other unusual things, when writing it. This way, any viewer who turns on the captions will know how to spell their name, too. - If there is a long music that is prominent in the show, write the name of music in the captions. This way, if a viewer has both captions and sound on, and does not know what the music is called, then they can learn. - In some cases, you may wish to include something even if it is not really relevant to the plot because the audience is not expected to know if it is or not, at that point in the story. Likewise, you can exclude something for similar reasons (e.g. a character whose name has not been mentioned yet, and is revealed later). - Do not code the captions incorrectly. (Sometimes they are incorrect, causing problems with the display.) I have seen most the above things sometimes, but not always; they are inconsistent and often do not do a good job, but sometimes it is good. Another note: on DVD video, the way that subtitles and captions are different, is different than your description. On DVD video, captions are stored as text (and the user can adjust the fonts) and subtitles are stored as pictures with indexed colours (I have not seen any DVD player that you can adjust the colours or translucency of subtitles, even though it seems to me that it should be possible to do).

abejfehr 4y ago

This feels like a lyric video, but instead of music it's a clip of speech. I don't think it's that unique, but annotating the coughs and laughter is pretty good

iamevn 4y ago

This sort of thing is generally referred to as "Kinetic Typography". For example: https://youtu.be/U4rwlvMEoj0 https://youtu.be/U4rwlvMEoj0

Maursault 4y ago

The video shows neither subtitles nor captions, because the "film" displayed is nothing more than a frozen still picture slide over which what is more accurately known as an audio text transcription is creatively displayed employing kinetic typography.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_typography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_typography

betimsl 4y ago
Also, I believe that this is not done at the time, but later with a computer

muzani 4y ago

I think it's cool. Several decades ago, I was hooked on this game, Betrayal at Krondor, which did some really nice stuff with fonts that really brought out the tone of the conversation. It feels a bit like a lost art. It's not used for subtitling much anymore because of how everyone has the resources to put actual voice acting in everything. But I like my games and videos on mute because of all the noise pollution, so I'd love to see more of this.

genewitch 4y ago
It's been a while since i've played a game that didn't have at least cinematic subtitles, if not every spoken word. I can't remember the first game i played that did it well, but it was probably Morrowind.

deafpolygon 4y ago

As a deaf person, I don't like this style.

Luc 4y ago

From reading your description I assumed the dynamic text would have been generated in the ‘50s using some cool optics, but it’s clearly recent and done in software.

aaron695 4y ago

[dead]

mgdlbp 4y ago

'Picsub' came to mind, referring to subtitles and slides that accompany something originally audio-only. ...But looking it up, it seems the term is actually a nonce only ever used to describe one particular fansub of the type (for a comedy audio drama from the Evangelion franchise, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvLfQSoVhrM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvLfQSoVhrM) (indeed, the creator describes[1] why it was coined, and that the use of character portraits was inspired by video games — as sibling mentions, another place to find interesting colours and fonts in subtitles. And anime fansubs aside, I've also seen colour-coded official subs from several countries (must be a list of standards somewhere), e.g. this series on Dutch public TV that you can probably officially watch, because of lax DRM [2] Now, to somehow tie all that together, a Russian Evangelion cosplay skit with English colour-coded subtitles— https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kn76Rc2aa0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kn76Rc2aa0 [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20030320153637/http://www.absolutedestiny.org/picsub.html https://web.archive.org/web/20030320153637/http://www.absolu... [2] https://www.npostart.nl/de-slet-van-6-vwo/05-07-2021/AT_2160157 https://www.npostart.nl/de-slet-van-6-vwo/05-07-2021/AT_2160...)

Dr_ReD 4y ago

This kind of Kinetic Typography was a staple of the Scala Video Titler for the Amiga, first and of Adobe After Effects for the PC, later. After a while it became a bit boring because everyone was doing it everywhere, but to see it now, done so well, so much time before, and with only analog equipment, it is really inspiring.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

richij 4y ago

The original is from an installation at the People's History Museum in Manchester: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAyUxY0Cm0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCAyUxY0Cm0