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US foreign policy is not about spreading democracy. That's a bedtime story told to young Americans who don't know any better. The US is fine working with dict

US foreign policy is not about spreading democracy. That's a bedtime story told to young Americans who don't know any better. The US is fine working with dictators; it's when those dictators stop playing ball or are ousted that we suddenly want to spread democracy. Noriega, Hussein and the Shah are easy examples.

rayiner 4y ago
And the idea that america props up dictators or topples regimes because “it wants their oil” is a bedtime story for jaded American teenagers who don’t know any better. If that was true American foreign policy would look a lot different (and wouldn’t be such a money sink). Where’s all that Iraqi oil money again? U.S. foreign policy is aimed at maintaining stability and facilitating liberal capitalist democracy. We don’t regard popular movements that are communist or theocratic as “democracy” so we’re willing to support dictators to forestall that. But at the same time our foreign policy is fundamentally ideological in nature.
- SantalBlush 4y ago
  >And the idea that america props up dictators or topples regimes because “it wants their oil” It would be more productive if you addressed my comment, and not some comment you just made up. As for this: >U.S. foreign policy is aimed at maintaining stability and facilitating liberal capitalist democracy I believe that you believe this. But I'm not treating it as an axiom, so you'll have to give evidence for it.
  - random314 4y ago
    Stability is a euphemism for a government supporting economic arrangements favoring western corporations. https://chomsky.info/fateful02/ https://chomsky.info/fateful02/ "Liberal capitalist democracy" - this is obvious nonsense when you list out all of the regime changes forced on the countries by the United States.
    - rayiner 4y ago
      Like the economic arrangements that allowed Japan, then Korea and China to displace entire American industries?
      - random314 4y ago
        Like the coups that USA conducts to remove democracy to install dictatorships. Most Americans have absurd views of American foreign policy because of ignorance. But, given your Bangladeshi origin, in your case it is not ignorance. You are just volunteering as an unpaid American propagandist or random social media forums, even though you are well aware of all the CIA coups all over the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#:~:text=On%2011%20September%201973%2C%20after,power%20in%20a%20coup%20of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...
- random314 4y ago
  > And the idea that america props up dictators or topples regimes because “it wants their oil” is a bedtime story This is true, sometimes all they want to do is shore up some bananas. Or just help out West Pakistan to impress China. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-the-us-has-overthrown https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...
mc32 4y ago
Ok, to use American parlance, we expected them to play ball on an even field. Of course pols/biz were blinded by the big $$ in their eyes and could not see beyond that, but the expectation with was that the legacy of Deng and Hu would continue to soften the CCP and eventually become (economic) "partners" of some sort. Maybe not completely an open democracy but also definitely not the more authoritarian swerve it's taken over the last 10 years or so.
- hnfong 4y ago
  > eventually become (economic) "partners" of some sort Is China not an economic partner of the USA? I thought the huge amount of trade between the two countries made it a foregone conclusion.

rayiner 4y ago

And the idea that america props up dictators or topples regimes because “it wants their oil” is a bedtime story for jaded American teenagers who don’t know any better. If that was true American foreign policy would look a lot different (and wouldn’t be such a money sink). Where’s all that Iraqi oil money again? U.S. foreign policy is aimed at maintaining stability and facilitating liberal capitalist democracy. We don’t regard popular movements that are communist or theocratic as “democracy” so we’re willing to support dictators to forestall that. But at the same time our foreign policy is fundamentally ideological in nature.

SantalBlush 4y ago
>And the idea that america props up dictators or topples regimes because “it wants their oil” It would be more productive if you addressed my comment, and not some comment you just made up. As for this: >U.S. foreign policy is aimed at maintaining stability and facilitating liberal capitalist democracy I believe that you believe this. But I'm not treating it as an axiom, so you'll have to give evidence for it.
- random314 4y ago
  Stability is a euphemism for a government supporting economic arrangements favoring western corporations. https://chomsky.info/fateful02/ https://chomsky.info/fateful02/ "Liberal capitalist democracy" - this is obvious nonsense when you list out all of the regime changes forced on the countries by the United States.
  - rayiner 4y ago
    Like the economic arrangements that allowed Japan, then Korea and China to displace entire American industries?
    - random314 4y ago
      Like the coups that USA conducts to remove democracy to install dictatorships. Most Americans have absurd views of American foreign policy because of ignorance. But, given your Bangladeshi origin, in your case it is not ignorance. You are just volunteering as an unpaid American propagandist or random social media forums, even though you are well aware of all the CIA coups all over the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat#:~:text=On%2011%20September%201973%2C%20after,power%20in%20a%20coup%20of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_Chilean_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...
random314 4y ago
> And the idea that america props up dictators or topples regimes because “it wants their oil” is a bedtime story This is true, sometimes all they want to do is shore up some bananas. Or just help out West Pakistan to impress China. https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-the-us-has-overthrown https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries...

mc32 4y ago

Ok, to use American parlance, we expected them to play ball on an even field. Of course pols/biz were blinded by the big $$ in their eyes and could not see beyond that, but the expectation with was that the legacy of Deng and Hu would continue to soften the CCP and eventually become (economic) "partners" of some sort. Maybe not completely an open democracy but also definitely not the more authoritarian swerve it's taken over the last 10 years or so.

hnfong 4y ago
> eventually become (economic) "partners" of some sort Is China not an economic partner of the USA? I thought the huge amount of trade between the two countries made it a foregone conclusion.