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especially compared to satellites It is a lot easier to take pictures and collect data at 60,000 ft (balloon) than from a satellite in low earth orbit, which i

especially compared to satellites It is a lot easier to take pictures and collect data at 60,000 ft (balloon) than from a satellite in low earth orbit, which is closer to 6,000,000 ft.

lettergram 4y ago
They also could have had ground penetrating radar. Note the path of the balloon was over the US missile silos https://geo-matching.com/content/new-approach-to-use-ground-penetrating-radar-gpr-integrated-with-a-drone-uav https://geo-matching.com/content/new-approach-to-use-ground-... Outside the atmosphere you would not be able to do it
- sandworm101 4y ago
  If that thing had a radar strong enough to see through dirt from 50,000ft, it should have also been causing havoc to all sorts of electrical equipment too.
  - Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
    I know nothing of radar, but could the radar be shaped like routers beam forming? Couldn’t the radar also be switched off over the majority of inconsequential areas?
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > could the radar be shaped like routers beam forming? Yes, SAR [1]. [1] https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/backgrounders/what-is-sar https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/backgrounders/what-is-s...
      - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
        SAR is just a method to virtually increase the aperture of the antenna with a moving platform, it is unrelated to the localisation of the beam
- ridgeguy 4y ago
  You could. The Space Shuttle flew missions with an imaging radar that discovered ancient riverbeds beneath deep sand in the Sahara. At the time, some thought it would have worked equally well to disclose buried military infrastructure. https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/shuttle-imaging-radar-a-sir-a https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/shuttle-imaging-radar-a-si...
- kefka_p 4y ago
  Not just silos, going through the Dakotas and Missouri put it fairly close to Ellsworth and Whiteman, as well.
KennyBlanken 4y ago
Okay, genius: explain how easy it is to generate as good imagery at 80,000 feet (almost ten times the typical aerial imagery altitude) from a platform being buffeted and spun and tilted by the wind with the weight restrictions of a high altitude balloon. Now compare that challenge to simply setting up a shell company and purchasing 15-30cm commercial satellite imagery in their choice of bands. Commercial satellites can generate 15-30cm images good enough to tell what make and model a car is in a parking lot. https://blog.maxar.com/earth-intelligence/2020/introducing-15-cm-hd-the-highest-clarity-from-commercial-satellite-imagery https://blog.maxar.com/earth-intelligence/2020/introducing-1...
- mike_d 4y ago
  > explain how easy it is to generate as good imagery at 80,000 feet Camera gimbals provide image stability regardless of motion in 3D space. Digital post processing is used to clean up images from planes and other moving sources. > with the weight restrictions of a high altitude balloon. People seem to really underestimate the size of these balloons. They are hundreds of feet across and capable of lifting massive loads. Using Google's Loon as an example it had a balloon that weighed almost 200 pounds and carried an additional 175 pounds of solar panels before you even added the mission payload. > compare that challenge to simply setting up a shell company and purchasing 15-30cm commercial satellite imagery Satellites have predictable passes and military installations schedule sensitive outdoor activities around them. The problem for defenders with balloons is that they can loiter on station for months at a time making scheduling around them impractical.
  - supportlocal4h 4y ago
    Try scheduling activities around all those Starlink sats.

especially compared to satellites It is a lot easier to take pictures and collect data at 60,000 ft (balloon) than from a satellite in low earth orbit, which is closer to 6,000,000 ft.

lettergram 4y ago

They also could have had ground penetrating radar. Note the path of the balloon was over the US missile silos https://geo-matching.com/content/new-approach-to-use-ground-penetrating-radar-gpr-integrated-with-a-drone-uav https://geo-matching.com/content/new-approach-to-use-ground-... Outside the atmosphere you would not be able to do it

sandworm101 4y ago
If that thing had a radar strong enough to see through dirt from 50,000ft, it should have also been causing havoc to all sorts of electrical equipment too.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
  I know nothing of radar, but could the radar be shaped like routers beam forming? Couldn’t the radar also be switched off over the majority of inconsequential areas?
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > could the radar be shaped like routers beam forming? Yes, SAR [1]. [1] https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/backgrounders/what-is-sar https://www.earthdata.nasa.gov/learn/backgrounders/what-is-s...
    - 4gotunameagain 4y ago
      SAR is just a method to virtually increase the aperture of the antenna with a moving platform, it is unrelated to the localisation of the beam
ridgeguy 4y ago
You could. The Space Shuttle flew missions with an imaging radar that discovered ancient riverbeds beneath deep sand in the Sahara. At the time, some thought it would have worked equally well to disclose buried military infrastructure. https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/shuttle-imaging-radar-a-sir-a https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/shuttle-imaging-radar-a-si...
kefka_p 4y ago
Not just silos, going through the Dakotas and Missouri put it fairly close to Ellsworth and Whiteman, as well.

KennyBlanken 4y ago

Okay, genius: explain how easy it is to generate as good imagery at 80,000 feet (almost ten times the typical aerial imagery altitude) from a platform being buffeted and spun and tilted by the wind with the weight restrictions of a high altitude balloon. Now compare that challenge to simply setting up a shell company and purchasing 15-30cm commercial satellite imagery in their choice of bands. Commercial satellites can generate 15-30cm images good enough to tell what make and model a car is in a parking lot. https://blog.maxar.com/earth-intelligence/2020/introducing-15-cm-hd-the-highest-clarity-from-commercial-satellite-imagery https://blog.maxar.com/earth-intelligence/2020/introducing-1...

mike_d 4y ago
> explain how easy it is to generate as good imagery at 80,000 feet Camera gimbals provide image stability regardless of motion in 3D space. Digital post processing is used to clean up images from planes and other moving sources. > with the weight restrictions of a high altitude balloon. People seem to really underestimate the size of these balloons. They are hundreds of feet across and capable of lifting massive loads. Using Google's Loon as an example it had a balloon that weighed almost 200 pounds and carried an additional 175 pounds of solar panels before you even added the mission payload. > compare that challenge to simply setting up a shell company and purchasing 15-30cm commercial satellite imagery Satellites have predictable passes and military installations schedule sensitive outdoor activities around them. The problem for defenders with balloons is that they can loiter on station for months at a time making scheduling around them impractical.
- supportlocal4h 4y ago
  Try scheduling activities around all those Starlink sats.